The Wolf AND The Shepherd discuss the intriguing world of cosplay and who participates in it. They dig into the practices of furries, people who dress up as animals, mostly mammals, and take on the persona of that animal. Not to mention, the strange favoritism of My Little Pony among young males, both teens and even into adulthood.
In this episode of the podcast, we try our best not to offend furries or the furry culture while we talk about cosplayers and wonder just what it is about a brony that is so bizzare.
welcome to this episode of the wolf and
the shepherd today we are talking about
cosplay and the various parts of cosplay
but
we're going to dig in a little bit more
on cosplay with
furries and bronies so
as we kind of look right now at cosplay
what what exactly would you define
cosplay as what what is cosplay for
those out there that don't know what is
cosplay
well cosplay is the practice of dressing
up as a character
from a movie book or a video game to me
i think the uh practice came about
from people who were disgruntled that
they could only really dress up once a
year
at halloween with an excuse and people
who just wanted to play dress up just a
little bit more often and obviously
in this age with the internet found
similar
you know like-minded people sure i think
there's how that
you know cosplay came to be yeah nobody
frowns on anybody dressing up in a
costume at halloween it's a given
it's actually the opposite right if
you're not dressed up at halloween
you're kind of a party pooper
yeah you know it's like oh why didn't
you dress up in a costume oh well
you know and then they sold those
t-shirts so this is my halloween costume
it's like oh look how you're trying to
be
that way so now we've kind of spun that
halloween out
with that costume dress up but now we've
created this subculture in cosplay
yeah for you know year round basically
what you're saying yeah um cosplay
at least in the western world didn't
start coming around into popular culture
until about the 90s
but it could be traced back to japan uh
into the previous decade simply based
upon a lot of uh anime and manga
characters
so so we're talking about the 1980s yeah
wow
that was in japan when it first started
then and again you have to remember
not really any internet as such
right uh so internet is we know it today
right yeah
yeah yeah who knows what they had so so
basically this is kind of another little
piece of culture that we've
kind of stolen you know from
the eastern asia you know it they they
said oh look look we're
dressing up as these characters and then
somebody somewhere says
oh this is kind of interesting let me go
ahead and do that and now all of a
sudden it spills in
10 15 years later and now there's people
just dressing up year round
yeah and i think you know going back to
how it came from japan to here
it was around that period the early 90s
where um
the american fascination for anime and
manga comics came
um really into play and i think in a lot
of the comics
because they were you know direct
translations of the japanese magazines
but just with english uh text in there
right but they're all
also articles about cosplay in there and
i think
you know oh actually in the magazines
in the magazines yeah so were they
actually encouraging it
or or was it talking about what's going
on right no i mean
by that time by the time as i said the
manga and anime comics had become
popular over here
uh cosplay was already a thing over in
japan than they were already having you
know
various national conventions so it was
already
popular over there and once the cartoons
the anime cartoons
came into play and got on the cartoon
network and various networks over here
and the popular popularity started
rising more and more
yeah um i think there's more awareness
and again there's a little bit later so
people had access to that
you know that's crazy that's crazy
now um in terms of you know anything
that
gathers any traction i suppose uh
cosplay as soon as it started growing
attracted a lot of commercial interest
oh sure i mean they saw that
availability hey we can get that buck
off there sure so let's figure out how
we're going to make a buck off yes
you know there are always businesses
where they have a division
where as somebody said to them hey let's
make you know
size adult superhero costumes and all
these other type costumes
you know the various i think you know
before cosplay became a thing it's like
well yeah we do that
once a year you know six weeks before
halloween but then all of a sudden
you've got a year-round market
and i think a lot of the halloween
stores have actually
now just offsets of the full year-round
cosplay
and they well yeah and and of course you
know here we are we're recording in
october
halloween's right around the corner one
of the things that always baffled me
about a halloween store
was you kept seeing the same things
every year yeah you know there never was
a after halloween sale right they packed
up those costumes yeah right
and you saw those same costumes the next
year so
even though they might have went out of
vogue you know there might have been
something that isn't as popular anymore
you could still snag that costume
but the ironic thing if you probably
think back to before
the commercial people kind of grabbed a
hold of this right
was a lot of these people probably made
their own costumes
so you know somebody that sits there for
with
talent obviously right for two or three
months
and they make this costume like you say
commercial interests
probably grabbed a hold of that and said
well wait a second
what if we go ahead and make this
costume for the people that
really want to go to these deals but
don't have the two or three months to
create the costume then we sell it
and we license it and we bank off of it
and i think that's
what you're kind of leading into is is
that's basically kind of what happened
here
right that along with the halloween
knowing oh halloween's around the corner
so the
cosplayers that might only dress up once
a year
we'll mark these costumes up and go
ahead and really bank off
that yeah i don't know if you remember
back when i don't know maybe you were
about seven or eight
i think it started with the influx of
plastic
masks for uh halloween because there
used to be
i think latex i love them before then
but then i guess we got flooded by a
whole bunch of
uh chinese kind of superhero masks and
all that stuff
and i always remember buying a buying a
mouse kind of like a size too small
accidentally and you know where the ring
hole was well
where you put the cord through to tie
the thing on or the elastic
um that would start digging into your
face after all
that's too small have you bumped into
anybody i mean that thing i mean
especially because it would sometimes
split in different parts
yeah and it would start digging into
your face and then if anybody bumped you
oh not only that but you know they they
made those
for that one halloween night right but
yeah they really only made it for like
the first 30 45 minutes
yeah because you knew after you
trick-or-treated to you know a few
houses
you were done you were taking that cheap
plastic mask off
you might be being kind i think it might
have been 45 seconds
before you discovered the discomfort
well yeah and you got to remember as a
kid right you get that halloween costume
and obviously you're getting it
before halloween yeah so when you're a
kid what do you want to do
you immediately want to put that thing
on right even if it's
a day before halloween or three weeks
before halloween you gotta try that
thing on
right if you're gonna be batman right
you want to run around the house dressed
up in that costume
so a lot of times i'm sure there were
kids that ruined that costume before it
was even halloween time
right but the quality of costumes
nowadays compared to how they used to be
um just as an example here cosplayers
uh back in 2014
spent 11.7 billion dollars
billions with a b and that was in 2014
by the end of 2019 that figured
increased to 45 billions
of four-fold wait wait so go back and
say those numbers again 11.7 billion
11.7 billion
up to 40 some billion 45 billion
it's crazy yeah so it's crazy kind of
gone fourfold in the space of like five
years
the market for it and you know obviously
what happens is these costumes do become
more more elaborate
they realize that you've got those
people who only want the very very best
right costumes and so they'll pay for
the you know twelve hundred dollar iron
man costume as opposed to the
you know the 64 65 oh yeah yeah
yeah some some cheap junk i i remember
uh one of the first what i guess you'd
probably call it a cosplay costume
that i ever bought yeah i had always
wanted
real stormtrooper armor of course you
know you and i both were star wars fans
yeah and so i had always wanted a
full set of stormtrooper armor and i
paid
1100 dollars
for stormtrooper now you can go and you
can get something
probably actually better than what i
bought
for a few hundred dollars at a star wars
store
mine mine was pretty good i still have
every piece of it except for some reason
i lost the helmet
yeah like a long time ago and don't know
where the helmet
ever went to i think i had it on a
display somewhere and then it got packed
away and it got in a box it got thrown
away
but i still have a box that has that
storm trooper armor in there and i
remember
when i'd put it on i looked like
a storm trooper and of course one of the
cosplay things
star wars is very popular with that and
they have the
501st legion that they all dress as
stormtroopers and everything and it was
500 first legion approved and i think i
wore it honestly
like three times yeah but it was just
one of those kind of bucket list things
i
always wanted a storm trooper costume
and i had the cadillac version now
it's in a cardboard box somewhere do you
want that do you want to hear my
embarrassing make it yourself uh
stormtrooper
absolutely i'll go for it okay uh
this was maybe about 82
and i decided i would also like some
stormtrooper
so so now for uh clarity's sake this is
just before returning the jedi
right so empire's been out yep return of
the jedi yeah
not in the theater yet just just kind of
set the timeline yeah
um so uh i figured yeah i'd really like
stormtrooper kind of armor kind of thing
and i figured
well i looked through a few of my comic
books and stuff when there were places
which sold them
um but i made the mistake of wandering
around in the backyard
and i spotted two pieces of
uh tubing which were about 18 inches
long yeah yeah yeah
and um i kind of walked up to it
and i think my subliminal part my brain
was working
more than my uh conscience at the time
but uh i went over there kind of like
put my hand in there and it was a tight
fit
i thought hmm this looks a bit like
stormtrooper armor
so i pushed my hand all the way through
and i mean it was a struggle right
getting it all the way through and i'd
also kind of uh
not kind of worked out with the length
quite correctly because i mean it was
painful for as far as it was up once my
hand was yeah
elbow so now you can't bend your arms so
anyway yeah
well that i wasn't aware of that at the
time um
so i put the other one on because you
know i had to kind of like tip it up on
its end and push my hand through because
i couldn't do anything with the other
hand to help this
time around so i had them both on then i
realized
i couldn't bend myself i couldn't bend
my arms right and
now you're and now i
how am i supposed to get these off yeah
it was at that point i realized i'd made
a terrible mistake and i had to wait
uh for my dad to get back from work so i
sat out in the backyard i think it was
for like about
three hours uh because i didn't want to
go and knock on the back door my mom was
inside but
um i didn't i didn't want to disturb her
and listen to
a lecture so wait so i figured i'd wait
till my dad came home and
he had to actually um use a
sawzall type thing to cut right cut
through it and cut it around just at the
points where i could get my
uh elbow joint through so yeah that was
my do it yourself now
actually what i'm gonna do uh for this
podcast on
our facebook group i actually have a
homemade
batman costume i made i think
when batman returns came out and i wore
it to a fancy dress
party and believe me it's me wearing it
it's head to toe
homemade costume but yeah it's the sight
to behold so as soon as this podcast
goes live and we're up on the and it's
up on the
facebook group i'll uh go ahead and look
at this look
i'm looking forward to seeing that
because i have not seen this picture so
i'm looking forward to seeing that
picture
yeah now going back to the commerciality
of a cosplay
uh san diego comic-con
uh used to be the biggest i think
comic-con i think it
still is isn't it well it actually
stopped it yeah
that actually got cancelled uh this year
well obviously along with everything
else but on average more than 130
000 people go to that each year and you
can imagine just as much
that's more in the super bowl well
they're taking a lot of money obviously
to spend their on merchandise and
everything else i mean
right you know that events like that and
that's not the only one it just happens
to be the largest one and you know
they're very specific
um cosplay ones again like you mentioned
with the star wars ones
right um but uh even on tick tock
there's a famous cosplay on there
cosplayer and
well we say famous i don't think you or
i ever heard of her but
she's her name is uh lauren gray and she
has over
38 million followers 38 million
followers wow that that's crazy yeah i
haven't checked her out yet mainly
because i don't have tick tock but yeah
well yeah you know i know we have a tick
tock channel but
uh we actually don't manage it because
neither one of us are
savvy enough to understand how to do
tick tock so we
leave that to some of our associate
producers but uh
yeah check out lauren gray i guess on
tick tock however you do that yeah and
i'm sure our associate producer is going
to be listening through this and
giving you some kind of link on how to
do that yeah and uh i may even upload a
photo of her onto the uh facebook oh
there's
a page as well as long as she's um
decent uh
anyway there's a few other cosplay
things before we uh okay
diver into our furries and bronies which
i'm sure the listeners are really
looking forward to
um a few other cosplay things which
there were
it was obviously going to be a thing but
your thoughts on it in terms of how you
see it operating or how it would
it'd be hard i don't know to deviate
from the norm that much and it still
works successfully so the first one
is there are a bunch of cosplay dating
websites where these people can date
each other
okay i can i can see that i mean you
you've got the
the dating websites it's uh what's the
one farmers only yeah when it's looking
for farmers and then you've got the
silver singles for you know the old
folks i could
i'm not surprised i mean i wouldn't have
thought about it so whoever came up with
that
you know props to you you're you're
sitting in a mansion somewhere
laughing about the idea because you
banked off of that so
so good for you but uh how does the
cosplay dating website work i mean it
are are they dressed up in their
favorite cosplay outfit and they say
i only want people that you know
wear star wars cosplay and no star trek
or something like that i mean do you
check off the little boxes of what kind
of cosplay
fan you are well and i can't believe
i'm about to say this but if i ran a
cosplay dating website oh
is this really hypothetical or or is
this something that
that you know for a fact secretly you
were the guy that created the cosplay
dating well this this is what i would do
i would have your main profile photo had
to be you normal
okay just your normal everyday self
because at the end of the day unless
somebody's
way into it now hang on now let's be
honest so if you got a million people
signing up for this
995 000 just signed out if they got to
put the regular picture up there
well you see this is the way you make it
work though because nobody really wants
to date
somebody based upon what they look at
like in cosplay when that's only going
to be a small percentage of the time
i'll tell that to instagram well yeah
but um i think
that you know that in terms of dating
you need to see who you're going to be
seeing
most of the time but then they should
post their four best cosplay photos
so if there are people who don't really
care what they look like in real life
but are only after the cosplay things
then they can also
judge them on the cosplay photos yeah
that makes sense and that would
that would be my minimum requirement i
follow i follow your logic there yeah
if that makes sense and i think i'd have
to have a system of weeding out
you know people who put in uh like blank
photos you know they don't upload photos
it must be required simply because
you're going to get those people who
just want to
go out and find girls who dress in nice
outfits yeah very true yeah because
especially if they're wearing masks
right right so that that's very easy to
hide your identity
if you've got a mask on so totally get
that totally get that
uh what else is in there in that cosplay
world
um there's a surprising number of books
uh okay devoted to cosplay now magazines
it doesn't shock me because again i'm
guessing half the magazine would be
advertisements from
online stores selling stuff and then you
know the rest of it
the rest of it will just be advertising
you know um
conventions and all that stuff yep but
books
it's kind of um i mean sure it's got to
be somewhat illustrated because i don't
know the fictional
story about cosplayers yeah you know
what maybe there is but
but i'm guessing the books that you're
talking about are like say full of
pictures
you know of different people at these
you know cosplay conventions cosplay
events
stuff like that so uh i guess that
leads to knowing that hey print media is
not quite dead
right because you think of something
cosplay as being internet centric
and everybody being on the internet and
worried about their web pages and their
social media sites and things like that
but
if you got it in print media i mean it's
taken hold well when i said book
i probably meant maybe ebook just simply
because i can't see most of the people
in the generation or interferes they're
actually going to well when they can
carry it everywhere on their phone and
read it yeah
fair enough but there's still people
that print emails so
yeah yeah um the last thing i wanted to
discuss with you
just about the general cosplay world
before we go off into the diversion of
the fairies and the bronies
um was that i actually discovered
cosplay has its own cryptocurrency
called the cosplay
token yeah c-o-t c-o-t the cosplay
token yeah okay wow and uh what one
thing we haven't hit on
in any of our podcasts is cryptocurrency
but
let's talk about this a little bit so
how does the cot the cosplay token that
how is that playing into the whole
cosplay world well i'm figuring that
what they're going to use it for
is uh you know obviously the online
currency
when you buy stuff from the stores and
maybe
you know especially if it's shipping
from overseas a lot of the time you can
avoid certain taxis and important taxis
simply because well i can't remember
which one of the crypto currencies it
was i don't know if it was
the dogecoin or one of the other ones
that was more along the lines of tipping
yeah that was the yeah that was the
dodge coin because they used to do it on
so so i'm i'm wondering if this is kind
of the same thing with the cosplay it's
like okay
here's me in a cosplay costume right
so tip me cosplay coins yeah and
maybe that's what's going on and you
know once again
our uh crack team of fact checkers
we haven't figured this out we just saw
that there is one yeah
you know hey figure it out yeah yeah i
don't have a
a cot cryptocurrency
address but you can tip me a cot
coin and i'll let you know what that
address is once i figure out how to get
one
yeah i know there's a ever-growing
number of
bitcoin atms you know appearing all over
the united states including here in
north texas but i think it's going to be
a long time before they come across say
a
cosplay token atm ah but you know what
what if the cosplay token atm
dressed up as a vending machine then uh
it's sitting there it's doing cosplay i
mean that'd be the way i'd try to do it
it's like listening to pinky and the
brain sometimes yeah
sometimes sometimes but i digress so
uh so we got off cosplay but let's talk
about
kind of the where we where we originally
wanted to go with this podcast and
and we decided uh that we were gonna
combine
a few things into one right on this
so uh let's talk a little bit about
furries
because originally we were going to do a
podcast all about furries but we decided
hey let's rope some of this stuff
together and to me
and and this is no offense to the furry
community
but to me it's just kind of a form of
cosplay
and so when you and i were talking about
bringing up furries and everything else
we kind of decided to
go kind of north on the writing down our
topics and figuring out what we were
going to talk about and we said oh no
the main topic's got to be cosplay
and then of course the bronies we're
going to get to in a minute but
so what what exactly
beyond just the the term free what
exactly
is a furry this is um
one of those questions i'd love you to
be able to
go back in time interview into somebody
who knew the answer
but the audience be from like i don't
know about 50 years ago or 60 years ago
so i'd have to watch their faces
listening to this explanation
we do have some audience members out
there that are 65 plus
so so we're we're gonna pander to them a
little bit and for those that actually
kind of know
what it is uh what we'll still go on
with this because
like i said i'm not a hundred percent
sure exactly what they are oh so
so explain it to me like i'm one of
those 65 pluses out there
so what is a furry okay a fairy
is basically an enthusiast for animals
who have anthropomorphic qualities like
human characteristics or at least they
can ascribe
human characteristics to them and they
have a great fascination
with animals um like in cartoons that
talk
um especially the female especially the
female characters
but um so we're talking about cartoon
characters like say
bugs bunny right yeah bugs bunny is a
rabbit
he's obviously a rabbit right yeah and
he talks he speaks english
but he he kind of walks around in the
cartoon
yeah like a human he doesn't hop around
like a rabbit right
yeah but you know he's a rabbit yeah but
he acts more like a human
yeah yeah and that's those
anthropomorphic qualities you know it's
like using reason logic all their stuff
but um you know in particular furries
are attracted towards people who dress
up
in fairy costumes fairy being anything
from the fair world i mean i've
i'm guessing saying they kind of keep it
strictly to mammals but
who knows there might be some fish
fairies out there i'm not sure well
maybe that's a secret subset right it's
kind of somewhere on the dark web
of the the fish furries maybe the
maybe they're the the scalies or
something like that
yeah but but yeah so so you're talking
about like you say mammals that makes
sense right
because because most mammals you know i
mean you take your dog or your cat right
yeah everybody's kind of picked him up
made him walk on the hind leg
said look i'm a person right so i i can
see
the whole mammal concept you know that
you can
kind of picture a mammal walking on time
legs like a person even
even though they don't do it full-time
right there's actually a um
well furries are so popular and there's
been
a number of um psychological studies
on the um practice and there's actually
an academic body named iarp
also known as fur science
so i don't know yeah i don't know if you
can actually get a degree
to vary online with us i'm not sure but
anyway it's comprised of uh
psychologists sociologists social
workers
all around the world now i don't know
about you but if i heard a list
comprised of
psychologists sociologists and social
workers to me it sounds like an
intervention group
absolutely i mean it's you know people
in professional terms of trying to get
people away from
alcoholism and drug abuse yeah let's be
honest
in family troubles and all those things
so
i'm totally with you on that one yeah
that sounds like uh
daddy is cashed in your trust fund and
is paid for an intervention group to
stop you dressing up like a cow every
saturday right and whatever's left he's
going to buy a boat and call it you know
don't sink this furry yeah
um well i i was actually
while i was actually doing some research
and again i
this is one of those subjects which we
probably could have winged it
and nobody would have fact checked us
but i did actually do some research on
this
and there were a bunch of interviews
with practicing furries
online obviously is that the term that
they want to use those
practicing furry no i just put that in
front oh okay yeah i don't know
because that makes it sound especially
professional it's
and practice like practicing amateur
fairy yeah yeah i guess
if if you're gonna do it maybe you want
to be a professional furry
are you a practicing furry do you
actually get to the point where you're
professional furry
i don't know getting too deep down the
river well well i don't know i think
you know maybe the amateur fairies are
the ones that keep turning up as snakes
every now and then it's like
fairy idiot yeah yeah yeah i got my
animals confused i
i failed seventh grade science so i
don't know what a mammal is and what a
reptile is
well one of the one of the best opening
uh lines of one of the interviews i read
um this guy said uh hi my name is josh
but you can call me by my furry name
moon raiser oh so they have furry names
yeah so i didn't know this yeah moon
race so so
josh aka moon razor yeah uh do you
remember
what animal he dressed up as uh
because i'm picturing okay moon raising
gotta be like a coyote right
coyote something like that that that's
out there in the moonlight saying oh i'm
a moon raiser
it's probably a squirrel
raccoon you know maybe he digs around in
the dumpster
right and he realizes i might as well
put a raccoon costume on now i won't
look as bad digging in the dumpster
dress like a raccoon because i can hang
out with the real raccoons and maybe fit
in they can take me in as their family
and
we can all go steal dog food together
yeah
now um what have you had to guess
when would you think furries have been
around since oh gosh
you know i i would have to say
90s just you know
shot in the dark guess here i'm going to
say sometime in the 90s
right it was actually the early 80s
okay and this shocked me because again
without
really any type of internet or texting
how did people find these support groups
together together how did fairies find
other furries i mean did you just
basically bite the bullet and one day
just walk down the high street in your
panda costume
and somebody else see you hope you're
there again the same time tomorrow and
they
walk up in their cat costume and that's
how the group
you know that very well possibly could
be or maybe you're
taking too much time hanging out at the
zoo right
you know you go to the zoo you got a
season pass to the zoo when you're
you're kind of eyeing the koala bears a
little too longingly
and somebody says you know what i bet
that guy
dresses up like a koala bear and sits
there and chews on leaves and speaks in
an
australian accent and would really like
to hang out
that that could happen also what could
have happened is they could have gone
the whole
newspaper ad route you know putting out
in the local newspaper but
again just like i said about if you had
to explain this to somebody in front of
an audience 50 years ago
i think you'd have been shot right yeah
but even
you know you think even yeah actually
crap the early 80s that was almost 40
years ago anyway
oh dang this is kind of a yeah probably
that's a little probably
bad except gang so yeah so back then 40
years ago in an ad
how would you put that you're a person
who likes to dress up
as an animal in search of other people
who like to dress up as animals
well that could be attributed to the
fact of the name furry right because
if if you didn't know what a furry was
and i didn't know what a free was
and if you're listening out there and
you don't know what a free is right
you hear the term furry anything with e
you know the the y at the end or an ie
at the end
it sounds happy yeah you know hence the
word
happy has a y at the end right so furry
just kind of seems cheerful
that this is a happy thing there there's
nothing bad about it we're all smiling
it's all you know rainbows and
everything else everybody's dancing
around having a good time
so maybe they said hey we we got to come
up with some kind of name for this
that kind of has a happy sound and you
know
this costume's a little on the furry
side and somebody said hey
furry there it is and like well i was
going to call it blah blah blah but okay
furry yeah that sounds better
we'll we'll go ahead and we'll go with
that right now um
if if we have to be honest oh well we're
always honest
fairies um
it's obviously a kink of some type right
or a fetish just in the same way as
um yeah and and we got to remember you
know fetish
tends to have a sexual connotation but
it's not necessarily always that
it it's a bizarre thing bizarre
meaning as far as the normal parts of
society of course
normal here here i go with all these uh
terms that are maybe
socially unacceptable right but your
average person there's a better word uh
wouldn't dress up in an animal costume
right so it's a
fringe let's use the word french right
is that a fair enough word to use it
this is kind of a
fringe interest yeah you know it it's
kind of like uh
actually being a new york jets fan yeah
it's a fringe interest
and they're terrible this year so it's
only the die hards that are actually
wearing a new york jets hat right now
well
the one of the most freaking comments uh
i read on most
uh blogs and report articles about
fairies was that the furry fandom
or fandom is not all about sex okay
so this is where we kind of slightly
differ from the regular
cosplay because the regular cosplay i
mean like you said you wanted to have
stuff
you know stormtrooper armor there's
plenty of grown-up guys who
you know you can understand why they
want to dress up as batman or darth
vader or whatever you know just let off
some steam do that
and a lot of the time i think with that
it's because of
their interest in their own costume and
just being all feeling and
having a community of other people who
will pretend along with you
whereas when it gets to the furries
there's obviously a sexual side because
you've got
fairies with crushes on other fairies
who
all have ever seen is the costume and
not the person underneath
well and let's not let's not
you know use some toxic masculinity in
this right because
there are plenty of the female side of
cosplay that wants to
dress up as some of these quote-unquote
sexy anime characters uh princess leia
in the slave outfit i mean that's a
popular one for women
so so they can play to that and say
we know this male fantasy over here is
this certain outfit yeah and so if we
put that on we can kind of take on that
persona and feel sexy
so so it works both ways works both ways
uh
how that works dressing up as an animal
i i don't know if this explanation's
going far enough for me well i think um
you know again going back to cosplay i
remember a time where
there used to be very few i guess sexy
halloween costumes
but now they've now they've sexified
pretty much every every female
absolutely
oh dude it is not only that it's
everything i mean you can be you can
pick a profession
and type that into google and put sexy
yeah yeah whatever profession yeah
halloween costume yeah and there's one
out there right yeah you know
there's going to be a sexy coal miner
sexy librarian
sexy lawyer sexy
uh dmv attendant
that there's gonna be something there so
so
absolutely but it kind of goes back to
what you were talking about earlier
about the commercialization of it yeah
right so
there's gonna be some woman somewhere
right and
you know we're talking about a woman
nice looking woman
in shape but maybe she's working at the
dmv
everybody makes fun of her for working
at the dmv but she goes to a halloween
party and she dresses as the
sexy dmv worker everybody's going to get
a kick out of it right right
and so you can do that with any costume
but
how do you make a sexy animal costume
well just before just before we leave
this other topic i just wanted to say
i knew the over-sexification of
uh cartoon characters etc
had gone far too far last year when i
saw
an advert for a sexy
grandma costume from little red riding
hood
oh yeah so we're gonna sex granny up in
little red right and yeah
you know what i i attribute that to
liberal arts schools where they get
marketing degrees
and they say i'm going to figure out a
way to sell this and you know what more
power to them right yeah because
because they're putting sales on that
dashboard right there and they're making
that graph
go the correct direction when they're in
meetings right you know because
there's so much that that they can do
but
transitioning on from the furry thing no
hold up
oh no sorry sorry go back and out and
stepping ahead sorry
go back and answer that question which
you asked about you know how do the
furries find each other attractive
you know with those costumes oh that
that is where we were so
so tell me about that so because i
remember i think the last um
comment i made was you know one of the
one of the most frequent
type of comments was the fairy fandom is
not all about sex
um but many fairies will wear at least
the head of their costume during um
romantic relations
no kidding i mean i guess everybody's a
10 with that fairy head on right well i
guess that
that goes back to the whole paperback
thing right
you know what what was it butterface
right
everything's great better face right so
yeah yeah so
i i totally see where that's going now
um
like you were saying about the
commercialization uh
fursuits which is obviously the costumes
they wear okay
can take hundreds of hours to make oh i
don't doubt that and a lot of the time
they're
they're hand stitched they're all well a
lot of them are custom made because if
you're going to pay a lot of money you
don't want to off the rack pretty portey
sure you know fairy suit um and they can
sell for thousands of dollars
literally thousands um but this might
actually surprise you
if you had to well actually i'll let you
guess if you had to guess
how many people identify themselves as
fairies but don't actually own any type
of fairy costume what percentage of
furries do you think that would make
wow okay so so we're talking about
people that are furries
but don't have a furry costume yeah what
percentage of
total ferries do you think that is i'm
gonna go with the
uh the cheap safe bet and i'm gonna go
50
actually it's as high as 75 wow
so 75 of the ferry community are pretty
much
voyeurs okay so so
they're out there just kind of looking
at the other 25
finding them attractive but they don't
really care what the other furry finds
attractive you know yeah you know maybe
maybe they're going to
the spirit halloween store and buying a
cheap like 10
thing but you know not wearing it that
long because they're more interested in
the ones that have gone all out and
spent these thousands of dollars on
these outfits
right yeah so they're cheap like me yeah
is basically what you're saying
yeah and part of the whole fairy promise
is you basically take on a
schizophrenic or disassociative identity
disorder type persona
because when they wear the actual
costumes or the fursuits as we've now
learned
they're called they actually have to
take on an identity which is completely
different than their real life
oh okay so it's known as a fursona
persona you've said before
that they changed their names
right so so are they
you know getting away from and let's
just pretend for a minute that they're
in the united states and there's normal
day-to-day they're speaking english
right do they
change their communication i mean do
they start
making noises towards each other well
maybe speak in a different voice or use
words that wouldn't otherwise use or
repeat things i guess in the character
of the animal
like if they were dressed up as a cat
you'd think despite the fact that
speaking english you're gonna throw in
the old meow
gotcha yeah okay no that makes a lot of
sense that that makes total sense or or
you know if they're a dog they're
gonna bark every once in a while or or a
horse they're gonna nay
every once in a while or y'all they're
gonna be like oh will you please stop
milking me moo you know something like
that yeah
okay that kind of pees on the parade of
the uh koala costume you mentioned
earlier because
who's gonna buy one of those well i
guess if you're devoted enough to buy a
koala
costume you're going to know what a
koala sounds like right here yeah
apparently
i mean it just a little bit of
drunkenness and an australian yeah
i'm like oh you might you know something
like that yeah i think by the time you
spent uh
1500 or 3 thousand dollars on a koala
costume you've pretty much researched a
little bit about them yeah
you know oh especially yeah yeah if
you're dropping that kind of green on it
that makes sense
so with all that said
now we got to move a little bit into
bronies so
the reason why we roped bronies into
this
was because we we were talking about the
furry thing before
and i i said okay well you know let's
let's put some
talking points together i said by the
way i don't know if this kind of fits
into the cosplay or not but
we gotta do a little bit of look up on
bronies and your exact response back to
me is
what is a brony and i was shocked that
you hadn't heard about this and for
those of you out there that don't know
what a brony
is a brony is
a teen you know
kind of early teen maybe what do they
call them tweens now you know
11 12 years old through adult
male that loves my little pony
and it was shocking to me that there
is a giant following
of people that that love my little pony
of stereotypically people you would not
think would like my little pony
so when you kind of looked at me like no
this doesn't exist i said all right
you've accepted the challenge tell us
about bronies
what what did you find out about this
brony world that is
actually hiding out there well firstly
when you
mentioned the word brony to me the
immediate thought in my head was
huh that sounds like pony i wonder if
it's a real world
i'm going to save that for the next time
i'm playing general knowledge in case it
comes up
and that's not brony brony no no idea
and then
obviously you showed me a video a rather
disturbing video
um about what bronies are um
you mentioned it being you know from
tween males up to
you know middle aged males but there's
but
it also has a female sure following and
they're called
pegasisters i guess after pegasus
right yeah see i didn't know yeah yeah
now
um how many of you have to guess
even by 2012 how many bronies there were
in the united states what would you say
2012 2012. how many bronies are there in
the united
states i'm gonna go with a hundred
thousand
and by 2012 it was estimated that the
number of bronies in the united states
alone
was between seven and 12 million
oh my god now that seems a bit wow that
seems
extremely no way because i mean
let's be honest right if there were
literally
50 million actual bronies in the united
states
and somebody came up and asked you if
you were brony
how many are going to say no chance no
no right well it's probably only going
to come out of like maybe nine people
out of 50 million is oh there's only
nine bronies in the entire country
right yeah so i don't know how they got
those figures
because you can't imagine there was a
anonymous online poll that reached
that many people that they could have 12
million responses because if it was that
widespread i'm pretty sure
i would have remembered it you know if
it have come up as a random kind of
question
sure you know do you like dressing up as
a pony bunny chance yeah but
but the ironic part and that's why i
wanted you to kind of do
your due diligence on it it was this
following and
and there is a lot of cosplay there's a
lot of dress up
in in this brony world but
there's some that don't necessarily
dress up as the ponies
but are fascinated with the world of my
little pony yeah
and my little pony by the way you know i
don't know if we fact check this or not
but it's been around for
years i remember as a kid my little pony
being available but it was always the
girls that had the my little ponies and
i had
transformers and gobots and star wars
figures and things like that
and the girls would have the barbie
dolls and the my little ponies and
everything and it was
it was truly a girl toy
and a boy toy right thing i mean there
was a time
and i don't know if this exists or not
anymore but
you'd pull up to mcdonald's and you'd
say i want a happy meal and they'd say
do you want a boy toy or a girl toy
they probably had to get rid of that by
now right but i could see
like a my little pony being the girl toy
and
that would that was always pointed that
way
yeah but then this subset decided
no we these guys said well we like my
little pony too
and they just they grabbed a hold of it
and gravitated toward it and made this
movement behind it almost as strong as
the furries have done
yeah and um my little pony the toys were
actually first released by hasbro back
in 1981
so again we're looking almost well 40
years
and i've never actually seen an episode
of my little pony
nor have i almost watched a clip today
on
youtube to prepare myself but didn't
bother me but
but i will tell you this i took my
daughter
to a live my little pony show
i've seen horror movies in the movie
theater i've been to haunted houses
i've never seen anything scarier in my
life
than full-size adults dressed up in pony
outfits
dancing around on the stage i told my
wife i said
i think i'm gonna have to go this is
scaring me to death
seeing these people dressed up as purple
and pink ponies
dancing around on the stage singing i i
truly got frightened i
i wanted to just do horrible things to
people because i was so
psychologically damaged by watching this
stage play
play out in front of me of these people
dressed up and dancing as ponies it it
was scary
yeah i mean that's normally the kind of
thing reserved for ever
you've dropped some lysergic acid or
managed to get hold of some
dimethyltryptamine
yeah yeah i mean i mean this is one of
those things that maybe you take the
magic mushrooms and you see
but yeah all i had to pay was like 18
bucks for a ticket and i see these
people dancing around i'm like
i can't do this i i i can't do it i'm
scared
i want to go home right now um brony
fandom actually started from an internet
meme on um
4chan now i remember i used to go on
4chan quite a lot
for uh so kind of like
research purposes general news yeah
general news political news
uh because it was completely uncensored
and they weren't back at that time yeah
we're talking about way back in the day
yeah there wasn't that many independent
news sources so anything you kind of
read you would
kind of well i mean it wasn't you didn't
have such
um an opportunity well an opportunity to
have to be able to fact check
what you were reading because there
weren't that many sources you could
actually trace back to
right um but anyway um like i said it
started
from an internet meme on 4chan and
in 2010 um a new
my little pony series was released and
it was called
friendship is magic okay and after that
was released
that was when the brony was officially
born because
on 4chan you'd have people upload photos
of themselves
in my little pony kind of rainbow
colored wigs and all this stuff
and then it started developing further
from that
and from that point you know it started
gathering traction and now
i mean it's got uh quite a worrying
number of
members that may know back in 2012 it's
between seven and 12
million which is yeah well yeah but but
you're also talking about that movie
coming out
two years just before this that's a huge
following in that short of time right if
you stop and think about it that that's
a huge
following just based off of that yeah
and with all the commercial things that
are are
fighting for people's attention even
10 years ago that gotta admit
you know more power to the my little
pony people right i mean that they were
able to grab a pretty
sizable subset of the population to get
them right behind this
right and i think you know there hasn't
traditionally been much
criticism of cosplay or even furries
in terms of it being a threat uh to kids
right um because it's mainly practicing
adults but
um there's been a bit of concern
you know in regard to the whole kind of
brony movement
because it creates a similar environment
environment with the you know grown
adults and little kids in the same
kind of world and it was actually back
in 2014 a critic
of brony said the problem with bronies
has nothing to do with grown men
like in a children's cartoon but
everything to do with their
usurping of a safe space for young girls
and distorting it into a hypersexual
and toxic environment for those younger
fans
wow and that you know it's hard to kind
of
regardless of whatever innocence there
is in the brony movement you can't
really
come back with a good rebuttal for that
criticism of it as such
one of the things i remember when i was
kind of showing this to you and
kind of explaining to you what i knew
about it which by the way is
very very little was a documentary that
had came out
about the whole brony movement and
i guess one of the positive things that
came out of it was
some of these tween
teen young adult males that shared this
interest which on its face seems kind of
harmless was
able to find some friendship through
this seemed
harmless once again on its face i mean
any documentary is
gonna lean one side right so obviously
the
the documentary i haven't watched the
whole documentary by the way i've only
seen the trailer
but uh in looking at that it it
kind of seemed harmless with that but
i guess that that would be the the
positive
spin that came out of that that at least
there were some
ostracized people that had some kind of
mutual interest that they were able to
get together
hang out even if it was playing with
little plastic horses
right yeah i think the whole
topic today is something which
you know i've certainly learned about a
thousand times more than before i
researched it because i knew very little
outside of some of the cosplay stuff and
that because of you know our star wars
um intro but there was one question i
was going to ask you actually after you
showed me the trailer the other day for
the
uh perronie's uh okay show
um at any point
because i think you saw a longer trailer
than the one you showed me
i i think i did yeah honestly i think i
did yeah
at any point did it show
um any female members because remember
earlier i said there was the female
version of it but on there
and there's a reason why i was asking
that because sometimes
they create i don't know almost a fake
counter balance to make it like see look
there's men and women who
yeah yeah yeah this is safe there's no
big deal here yet
to be honest that the one that i showed
you the other day yeah there
there were a couple of female people in
there which
kind of you sure are you sure they were
female no okay
i'm not because remember you say that
because remember this is part this is
part this is closely uh
aligned to a movement where you can't
always tell fair enough
fair enough uh i i assume them to be
female that is probably my own error
right um maybe it's not maybe you know
i i won the guess maybe i lost the guess
i don't know i had a 50 50 chance there
and now i can already hear the haters
saying no you had like a
16 guest but anyway
uh i i think there
are enough female
people out there that can probably
legitimize
this because there's that attack on
toxic masculinity and trying to
let the male members of
the brony movement feel like hey
it's okay it's okay to like this we like
it too
and by the way you know you can you know
come in here you can live with me and
and i won't
attack you for not being a
toxic masculine guy and so it provides
them a safe space
that's kind of the way i look at that if
that makes sense
yeah yeah so um i had this thought about
the largest um
kind of comic con equivalent for bronies
is called bronycon
bronycon yeah and it actually ended last
year
was this a casualty of koben or what did
this well this is last year was its last
year and i don't know why it was it's
last year
so they they said this is the last one
so this is
this is pre-covered they decided to
close it down okay
now this is i had this had this thought
once
once i read that fact um and it was
well i wondered what they did this year
and then i thought about
the stereotypical person who probably
dresses as a brony and i thought
i bet they all joined antifa ah
possibly i mean if you think about you
know are
are they wearing pony shirts maybe we
need to be
watching out for that right so well
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