Episode 25 - Smoking Windmill BBQ With Sean Merchant

welcome to this episode of the wolf and

the shepherd today we are joined by

sean merchant the proprietor head chef

uh

head barbecue guru of smoking wind bill

barbecue

sean glad to have you with us thank you

for having me yeah

absolutely uh looking looking forward to

kind of delving into you know the texas

barbecue world

not not only just barbecue because shawn

don't

don't think of him as just one of these

guys that you know can go outside

in the backyard and run a smoker

especially in the days of the traeger

where

you know all that's automatic and

anybody can go

get a trigger sean actually knows how to

cook stuff

i know how to microwave chicken

mcnuggets

and i'm almost figured out how to do it

well actually i've seen you eat maybe

six

times in seven years and normally you

skip meals because you don't know how to

use the microwave in like the office

next door to us

well sure that's true well it's very

complicated yeah

well it is i mean there's always an art

to cooking food

and in college i used to charge my

roommates money to buy you know like all

the ingredients and i'll

cook the food and you know i'd make you

know a whole ton of meals but then i

kind of skipped it for about 20 years

but there has to be an absolute passion

in making

good food i mean anybody can get

involved in making

mediocre food and you know right off the

bat i want to say

just like we said on the podcast the

other day with our friend

um bill that you know sean the food

you know bill bought in for us from your

restaurant the other day i mean it was

fantastic i'm not easily impressed

with food i'm really not because i will

you know routinely spend 90 minutes

preparing a meal in terms of chopping

stuff

up cooking it using different oils maybe

even three different oils cooking

vegetables and meats and stuff so

it takes a lot to impress me but

the food i mean i've not seen the

shepherd eat

food like that then in the whole time

i've known him actually

well that night if if memory serves

i ate more of that than you did well

yeah because you were using two hands

and i was only using one hand to ground

one piece at a time well that's because

you have that those british manners and

everything yeah you were trying to be

nice i was just saying hey this is good

stuff and i'm just gonna

scarf it up as much as i can i just

remember i just remember actually when i

took that last piece i saw that look of

disappointment on your face because i

saw your hand actually reach halfway

across the table

you did take the last piece your hand

was halfway across the table and i just

kind of went in there like a digger and

just kind of got it and i

yeah you were so enamored with the

digging of the holes you thought your

arm was gonna

yeah that you know one inch hole to grab

that last piece of meat

we almost ended the podcast we did it i

was very upset that you took that last

piece of meat because

and you're lucky that bill made it here

with those bacon burnt ends right all

right

we've had customers turn around the

husband picks up food for

for dinner for the family turns around

gets home

the bacon burn ends are gone he's

snacking on them we always put them on

the top of the sack

snacked on them and then by the time

they get home

the wife didn't have and the family

didn't have anything to eat and they've

had

the wife had the husband turn around and

come back and get another half well wait

hold up did he bring us in any bacon but

anything oh he did no he didn't no he

ate him all on the way here he did

he didn't bring us any of that he oh oh

so

once again we we figured out that there

was a conspiracy against us

that was my dinner yeah i want actually

yeah because he didn't eat

any of the food he didn't because he ate

the bacon bear ends on the way here he

most certainly did and by the way

he he brought a six pack of alien beer

packs he

but we're a little disappointed now

you're gonna have to make this up yeah

so sean what i do want to ask you is um

having said and being absolutely honest

about the quality of your food

there's a lot of mediocre food out there

but

people who still make a lot of money

through mediocre food did you set out

at the beginning to be like you know

what

if i'm gonna make some food i want this

to be the best quality

or i mean did you even have an idea of

that or you just kind of like have some

i don't know some type of menu you

wanted to do and kind of go from there

absolutely in my full culinary career

i've been an executive chef for the last

20 years

right at various corporations and then

decided to

move on and do my own thing starting

november last year

so in in the makeup of smoking windmill

barbecue

and any of the ventures that i've taken

along the way

it was to create food

from going out dining being a chef being

classically trained

going out and trying different people's

product

yeah and saying well you know it's

it's okay but how are we gonna make it

great

yeah the average person doesn't go out

and walk okay

sure they want great they want their

comeback flavors

well well actually i would disagree with

that because i think a lot of people

just

go out to eat to eat because most people

can't cook

worth of crap other than heating stuff

up like the shepherd was saying earlier

about heating up chicken nuggets

that's a lot of diet that people have

they just heat up

food which they prepare not only

necessarily go out to eat great food

unless it's like that one or two times a

year occasionally

and most people don't even know what

good food is right

and until you actually get to partake

in the good food yeah then you realize

wow

why did that taste so good yeah why did

i enjoy that so much what

you know when when you get a good plate

put in front of you and you say

well this there's not that much food on

this plate or whatever you know because

we're all used to going to chili's and

they

give you this trough that they put in

front of you that's just

garbage basically yeah and you scarf

through that because you've had a bunch

of chips in queso when you do all that

and so you go to a nice place

you go to somebody like shawn who knows

actually how to cook

and then sean puts a a plate in front of

you and you're looking down and you're

saying well

this is not enough to fill me up i'm

used to going to chili's you know

where's my chips and salsa

and all that but then you eat it and you

realize not only are you

satisfied after that meal but every

bite is just unbelievable yeah i mean

it's truly unbelievable yeah so

so those are those comeback flavors

though right that i speak

what what's a comeback flavor a comeback

a comeback flavor

is is something everybody's been out to

eat and had an

awesome experience right the service was

awesome the food was awesome

but every time that server came by and

checked on you

you didn't even want to lift your head

up to make eye contact right

because the food was so gosh damn good

yeah right those are comeback flavors so

that's what i like to create in my food

yeah and it starts with top ingredients

yeah you can't you can't skimp on the

ingredients you can't

save money here and there because you

you want your profit margins to be

better you can't you can't pinch pennies

your focus has to be on starting if you

if you start with the best possible

ingredient and you have the know-how

of how to cook that product then you're

going to have the best possible outcome

if you start

with the garbage guess what it's going

to be garbage right after you're done

with it yeah

it's it's like anything garbage in

garbage out i mean yeah

lipstick on a pig pick your metaphor it

it's all going to be the same thing

so sean take us back

years ago i mean when did you decide

what was that moment that you said you

know what i want to be a chef

that moment was um you know i had

it's a long story and i'm going to cut

it short for this

podcast but uh you know it's i i

wanted to go on the skiing trip with one

of my buddies

family couldn't afford it grandfather

front of the money

the deal was i had to pay when i got

back i was 14 years old i get back the

day i get back

mom drops says get in the car i got got

an interview with you for

reiner up at babe's chicken dinner house

the original one in roanoke texas

and says i got an interview for you for

a dishwasher position right

okay so i go there i get out of the car

i'm 14 years old i'm nervous as heck

i i go back to the car mom cracks the

window

says what do you need i said i'm not

going in there and she says

yes you are and i go in there and i met

with reiner i got the dishwasher

position

and i worked at that position

so hard and then next thing you know i

was being promoted to brining their

chicken and

and doing doing all the things that baby

babes chicken dinner house

does and then in 97 the texas motor

speedway club opened up

when that opened up i had an opportunity

to go out there

and when i saw the size of that kitchen

uh the amount of product that we were

pumping out of that kitchen on a daily

basis

the quality of the product i was like

this is for me this is what i'm doing

the rest of my life yeah and i've never

strayed away from it and that's all i've

done

and you know i ca i can't look back and

regret a single move that i've made

i can say it sounds corny but i've never

really worked a day in my life

because i truly enjoy and i'm so

passionate about what i do and love what

i do

i mean going back to what you were

saying about you know the taste of food

what i call that is an

aftertaste it's even if you're full

even about 20 minutes later you still

have that taste in your mouth

and you wish your stomach was empty so

you could eat that in time

almost like you had one or two more

bites left on yeah

you wish i mean you you you will push

yourself to be uncomfortable

just to get this food in your stomach

and i think and those are those

comebacks

yeah exactly i mean that's what i call

it like i said i call it an

aftertaste and you've got that taste in

the back ear throat there and on your

tongue

and you just wish you had a double sized

stomach so you could eat double of this

order whereas

you know you get a lot of um restaurants

where

you know you were talking about chili

see you can find some of these

restaurants these

chain restaurants where the waitresses

are very good

at bringing you all the waiters

um very good at bringing you refills on

drinks

because they want to get your stomach

full

with liquid so you don't need your

stomach doesn't need to be appeased

by the food you know some of the better

restaurants

you know and you know we we definitely

didn't plan on this podcast bagging on

chili's but yeah let's be honest

i don't like anything from chili's

except their skillet queso

and it's kind of went south

over the past few years but if i didn't

get that skillet full of queso before i

was gonna eat whatever

garbage i ordered from there i i would

be disappointed

i can't i can't eat there i guess

once i got back into cooking period i

mean i think it's the same thing with

something like olive garden

you know growing up in europe and

actually tasting authentic italian food

and then you go to olive garden it's

like yeah this isn't

well you but you do realize you you

cannot

take a date to olive garden

because when you're there you're family

so then you're committing

according according to the commercial

yeah yeah so

so olive garden is out front if you're

if

you're taking a date olive garden uh

there's something wrong

i would rather take a date cece's to be

honest or double dave's

well yeah well cece's is cheaper but

yeah you know we're

now we're digressing get us back on

schedule here

so sean i just want to ask like um you

know you said how you

got into it when you got into it

what were you thinking in terms of you'd

like to just work

maybe in a restaurant that somebody else

formed and you'd be

i don't know maybe aiming towards being

a chef in that or did you really think

right from the beginning i want to start

something myself

no i thought from the beginning that you

know in any career

there's there's the stepping stones yeah

and i wanted to create those stepping

stones

with with mentors that i met along the

way whether it be at the texas

speedway club or you know any of the

chefs that i've worked under

chef tim love you know i wanted stepping

stones along the way i didn't want

anything

handed to handed to me yeah i wanted it

you know i wanted to earn it and i

wanted you know to

to build my career to where i could make

the decision that i made this last

year to open up my own barbecue place

yeah

was opening up my own barbecue place

my dream from the get-go no but it's

something that i find

challenging and that i've had enough of

to know that with the science part of my

culinary career that

that i understand and the flavor

compounds in food

that i knew that you know this would be

a challenge just like

you know i i'm i hunt all the time you

know i love cooking wild game

that was a challenge because so much so

so many times you hear people say

well you know i don't like wild game my

saying is

anything is good if it's cooked right

right well a lot of people give that

uh well it tastes gamey uh there there's

that

gamey taste where i'm afraid to eat

something that's venison because it has

a gamey taste oh absolutely and i've had

experiences

you know through my career even with my

sister-in-law where

you know she she swore she would not eat

a wild boar to save her life so we

invited her over for dinner and we had

i cooked you know wild boar chicken

fried

steaks okay and when she was on her

second helping

you know my brother said well

well now back up did you did she know it

was wild boar

were you tricking her a little bit no we

were what did you tell her it was

we told her it was venison to start with

right okay but so

we tricked her a little bit because when

people have those

preconceived notions in the in their

head because maybe they've had

a product that wasn't desirable

they don't the average person doesn't

want to go back to that product right

whether it be elf venison

wild boar bad barbecue whatever it may

be

but if you can create that and then the

shock factor that i got

afterwards um well it was satisfying for

me but not so much for my

my brother because he he got heck for it

now even though she enjoyed it yeah she

did not want to hear that it was well

now i've always thought that comment

it tastes gamey is one of the worst

insults ever it's like my diamond shoes

are

too tight because i i think you know

game especially like when you cook it

properly

that that taste is missing from so many

people's diet

that you know a lot of people i think

they reconnect with maybe our ancestors

you know kind of caught

right you know hunted and and caught and

then tasted this you know over an open

fire

and to me when i try that meat when i

taste that

it's heaven to me i mean i love that i

absolutely love that so to me like that

thing it tastes gamey

is the dumbest kind of insult ever

because to me it just says oh it tastes

good i mean fantastic

and i think that comments misconstrued

it a lot yeah because

you know the gaminess is made up of the

ironiness and

wild game yeah there's so many flavors

out there to complement

that to where it can you can make it

really enjoyable

but so many people if you if you look

through you know

a wild game recipe book and everything

they're all standard recipes made by

you know farmers farmers wives and

everything throughout the

the you know centuries and everything

it's like

yeah that's that's not the case now we

have you can make it very flavorful

sure and and complement those flavors

now on an offshoot on that

um how long ago did you start did you

start hunting

after you started cooking or was this

prior to kind of

well we we grew up on a farm out in

keller oh okay

so you know our family our grandfather

would take us hunting

all right so yeah we grew up with

venison and whatnot sure

yeah now um one of the podcasts the

shepherd and i listened to

uh is the joe rogan experience and he

talks a lot about

you know hunting bow hunting shooting

and

he loves elk and that's something which

i am still to this day

i've not had the privilege of eating nor

have i but i see on instagram when he

has it

you know all kind of like carved up and

he's preparing it

you know it looks fantastic i mean now

in terms of your menu

do you keep it maybe in terms of

what you think people maybe want to eat

or do you kind of like maybe try and

expand it towards

what you might think might test

somebody's power a little bit

well absolutely in in any sort of

business you gotta play to your

demographics

sure and so that that as a whole

makes up the decisions on on what my

offerings are going to be

yeah we offer you know three four five

specials a week that we do one is our

ufo

which is a poblano pepper stuffed with

brisket cream cheese and wrapped in

bacon

so you you think you go to some of these

barbecue places they have the house

stuffed jalapenos

right i wanted to make a meal out of it

yeah and what better pepper to do with

within the poblano pepper

right it's going to be mild to medium

flavor

a lot of people can enjoy that and the

second they tried it

you know it just it just went off the

hook you know

we're we're selling out every day we

still sell out every day

so creating thing things like that

and playing to the demographics to

answer your question yes

is there more creative things that i

would like to do as a chef and as a

career chef

absolutely but some of them don't play a

part in my business right

so that that makes total sense and and

one thing that i think about

in in my job that uh

you know i've traveled around the

country and

i end up going to dinner with people and

you kind of get you get trapped in

it you know somebody wants to go to

dinner to this place and

you know i'm i'm a hamburger guy i want

a steak

i want a hamburger i i'm a meat and

potatoes kind of guy

and so i had to fool myself into saying

you know what it just bring me something

and don't tell me what's in it because

i'm gonna have that presupposition i'm

gonna have

that prejudice against what i'm gonna

eat

because i think i don't like it even

though

i haven't even tried it that i think

there's

a lot of that in the world you know

especially people going to restaurants

they get comfortable they know what they

like that that's what they want or

whatever

it is there a way that you could see

as a chef that you could trick

people in and that's kind of a strong

word but

it it is there a way that you could

introduce

i guess people into

different foods that they might not be

as comfortable with kind of like you

were talking about your sister-in-law of

saying

you know here we're cooking this wild

boar but

you know then you're you're towing that

fine line in a restaurant because

obviously you don't want a lawsuit

because somebody says oh i thought i was

eating this and then i ate that but

is there any tricks of the trade that

you've maybe

used to say you know hey here's

here's this dish and then once somebody

figures out what it is they realize

man i i really like that absolutely at

the

the last restaurant where i was a

corporate chef

bob stick and shop house you know we did

a safari club would come in every

january

and we do rattlesnake empanadas and

one of my servers came back and said

you know they were intrigued by the

rattlesnake empanadas

but they said that's crap meat and i

said really

so i made them up a plate and i took it

out i said this is on me

and they said what is it i said don't

worry about it

just try it let me know how you like it

i went back out to to the table after

they had eaten

every single bite every single

rattlesnake empanada on that plate

and i went back out i said how was it

and uh

they said uh it was phenomenal what was

it so it was rattlesnake

and bananas that's the crap meat that

you were talking about

so it really was rattlesnake it

absolutely was ripple

so uh not to get too

off topic here but it reminded me of

something else i wanted to ask you so

your normal person that goes to a

restaurant right and

and they're sitting there and they're

eating their food

and they want to say can i talk to the

chef

because they've either enjoyed their

meal or they didn't enjoy their meal

as as a chef when you

hear from the server or however you get

that message delivered what are you

thinking as you're getting this message

delivered that you know

table number six wants to see the chef

what is this what's karen

yeah right yeah yeah

you know and we're going to go both ways

right because it there are people that

you know want to compliment the chef and

there are people that

want to say this was terrible so

walk us through that as far as number

one

as a chef what do you feel like when you

get that

message that you're gonna have to go out

to a table what goes through your mind

and then positive and negative what

happens

well automatically what goes through

your mind is okay are they having a

positive or a

negative experience so so as you're

walking up to the table you're trying to

figure out

is this is this a compliment or a

complaint

absolutely you're judging body language

and everything and as you walk up to the

table

you've judged their body language so you

can you can tell

and you want

no matter what we want to appease our

guests

sure hey everybody has a different

palette everybody has

different likes so you can't go out

there

you know you know you watch all these tv

chefs and everything

and you they want to be a hard ass right

well guess what business is business you

go out there

you talk to the guests you figure out

you know if if they

enjoyed it then guess what you end up

having a 30-minute conversation with

them maybe a beer

if they didn't enjoy it you get your

butt back to the kitchen you make it

right

even if it's something that you have to

prepare a little bit different than how

you would normally

normally prepare it you still you

you want to appease them and take care

of them tenfold because

at the end of the day the fnb industry

is is

is a challenging industry and unless you

understand that and you can grasp that

you will never be successful at it are

there a lot of people

in your industry that can't grasp that

absolutely and you see the restaurants

the restaurants fail and they can be

from

a management aspect it could be from the

food quality aspect it can be a

combination of both

but you you truly it is a business and

you have to understand

that that you're you're there to appease

whoever may be in front of you and they

might not like it

exactly how you served it the first time

but i'll be i'll be go to heck if the

second time it ain't going to be perfect

for me well well i think

you know you have a lot of people who

complain in restaurants

that perhaps regardless of where

ever they want there's some other

factors of why they complain because

unless or they just want to come yeah

yeah unless you could they could be

having a bad day before they go

exactly and unless you have a service

breakdown like their food's

not what they ordered it took too long

to get to the table

this type of thing i mean i i think just

like the shepherd just said

you know those type of people they're

always going to complain wherever they

go

and i i think in any type of service

industry

you know as long as you reach those

metrics of good service

you can't be you know kind of

dissuaded in what you do by these people

who want to complain about everything

because if somebody orders a meal and

they don't like it

that's not necessarily on you now if the

food's not well prepared it takes too

long to come to the table

i can get the complaint right if they

don't like the taste of it

that's not really on you they they are

the people who

who ordered it off that menu it's just

like if they went to an into a grocery

store

bought something took it home you know

heated it up in the microwave and didn't

like it they can't go back to the store

and say hey i bought this meal oh and i

didn't like it

no you're wrong there because my wife

will buy pickles from the store

and if she gets them home and she

doesn't like the pickles she's returned

them to kroger well

um yeah but she's better snickety in the

restaurant industry

that's always a way to diffuse that yeah

you know if you if you see a guest like

we're

we're mostly carryout at smoking

windmill barbecue sure and if you

if you sense tension and with

my crazy sense of humor and my business

partner dennis bomar's craziest sense of

humor

we can we can most of the time diffuse

that

and and get them in a in a great mindset

to where they're going to enjoy our

product

and that's part of it yeah now do you

think with your food

do you consider it i guess you know

authentically texas or do you not like

to really identify it in terms of uh

now that that's a good question because

there's so many different

versions of barbecue and of course

i'm going to speak for you sean and and

speak for you walt but

we love texas barbecue then texas

barbecue is the

best barbecue yeah and so will you try

well you've traveled a lot again before

covered and you like when you go to

other areas in the states

and they say this is barbecue it's like

yeah sure

i've been to kansas city i've been taken

to what has been considered the best

kansas city bbq

it's not as good as texas i i've had

plenty of barbecue

and i always look forward to coming back

to texas because we do

have the best barbecue yeah and i i

think if you

if you take a twist on that and so

if it might be a north carolina style or

whatever

if you notice which is what by the way

yeah with this

so kansas city is is more

uh like vinegary right well they walk us

through that

the carolinas are or a lot of

vinegary sauces and some of them

introduce mustard

like a mustard vinegar sauce or whatever

so

by being being creative and being able

to

we make a hundred percent of everything

we do on site from our barbecue sauce to

every single one of our sides

100

the beauty of it is is you can mash

those together and then

it's at the end of the day it's it's

still texas barbecue

right but when people try my barbecue

sauce they can't put their finger on

it's like it's a mix between

maybe a northern carolina sauce

but it still has that texas feel and the

viscosity to it

uh i i gotta admit it that's true that

you bring that up

when uh oh bill brought those burnt ends

he brought the barbecue sauce and i'm

looking at them like that's

that doesn't look like traditional texas

barbecue sauce but then i'm trying it

and i'm like

that's really good he actually started

drinking it at the end

even after my daughter okay yeah even

now honestly even after the meat was

gone he was like

drinking this honestly you are not lying

there i

i actually did drink the rest of the

barbecue sauce it wasn't that good my

youngest daughter violet

literally drinks it sauce oh yeah it's

fantastic people want to come in and buy

it 24 7.

but it's crazy to me and i mean i think

you know for anybody who lives in texas

to think that

people don't have this

flavoring to like barbecue these sauces

like you mentioned the carolinas yeah

they have some good sources and all

their stuff but there are literally some

states

where they just don't i don't know

canada canada has terrible barbecue

that's a different i hate canada a

different country mate

let's talk about wood yeah right so

we're a little bit different but we

utilize

pecan wood yeah and cherry wood right

speaking of the scientific part of

of what i like in my culinary career is

you know with pecan you can get some

astringencies coming across just like

you can

maple and hickory and and post oak and

all that

yeah but i cut it with cherry wood

and i guarantee you there's no one else

in the immediate area

that utilizes any cherry wood smoke in

texas

let me interject with that now you've

obviously got a barbecue at home right

now do you use the wood pellets or the

different flavored wood pellets when you

do meats or do you

i don't i don't i don't have it at the

house oh yeah i got a

so so if if you were going to come let's

say to my house right in

i've got an old school offset smoker and

you're going to say max i i'm gonna

teach you how to smoke wood

or or smoke barbecue or whatever and i'm

gonna tell you the wood to put

in your smoker what are you telling me

to put in my smoker yeah so i like

you know with with a lot of of the woods

you know the pecan the mesquite the post

oak that

we we are most well known for here in

texas of smoking with

you know like i said there are so much

stringencies to that wood

i like a balanced flavor i don't like

waking up at two o'clock in the morning

burping up what i ate at seven o'clock

at night

right you know so how do you counter

balance that you counter balance it with

a softer sweeter wood

like pecan i mean like a cherry and then

you achieve that flavor profile that it

achieves that comeback

taste that i've been talking about and

it also achieves

a more mellow smoke that it it

balances on your palate but it's not

something that you're going to be

burping up and you know six hours after

yeah

because i don't think that's desirable

for anybody yeah um

so that's you know pretty much in the

barbecue that i'm doing

anything if i've gone to a barbecue

place i've been to

the top ones throughout texas

you know and they're great but i always

want to take away something from it

right and how to make it better what did

i what did i not like about it was

the the quality of meat the flavor was

great the quality of meat was not so

great

so it goes back into talking about you

know starting out with

the highest end product that you can

yeah and we can go into that with our

you know grass-run farms yeah uh brisket

that we use

right that's 100 grass fed well that

well that was actually going to be the

next question i was going to ask you in

terms of like the source of your meat

you know is it grain fed cattle

everything else because obviously that

you know you're going to get a much

better quality of meat going through

that you know right

absolutely and so so over the course of

opening up

our restaurant we must have tried

over 20 briskets that we were sampled on

and

the the key was was

how the render how the fat rendered

right

and i found a specific product with

grass run farms

out of omaha nebraska that since it was

grass-fed

and and people people look at grass-fed

you know from back in the day when it

was total garbage and

hardly even charitable yeah right but

the fat rendered so much better yeah

because it wasn't grain fed right the so

you had it you had that rendering

and then the richness of the meat yeah

of the flavor

yeah when you beef bouillon cubes are

made from beef right

when you eat a quality piece of beef you

should feel

like you're eating a beef bouillon cube

without all the sodium right

and and once you achieve that you got

you have what we have and so we found

this product with

grass run farms out of omaha nebraska

and it's it's a phenomenal product it's

it's very limited

and it's limited to myself and two other

customers in the in the dallas fort

worth area

and it's that way for a reason it's a

small farm

and we pay a premium for it yeah and we

but we want to deliver that quality

and that product and the passion that i

have been

behind it we want it to show through so

we started

by paying a premium for for a meal we

serve all prime beef well

that's what i was asking i mean the

difference between grain-fed and

grass-fed i mean the difference

when you get like you know the level of

ldls

you know in meat when you eat it when

you get people who eat are predominantly

you know carnivore diet that

you know there's meats you can eat which

are very good for you and meats you can

eat which are very bad for you but a lot

of the time it depends on the diet of

the

animal it's while it was alive it's

crazy you brought that up wolf

we have ours is the never ever program

so they've never been given steroids

they've never been given hormones

they've never been given

anything except what nature provides a

lot of farmers don't do this right

because

you have the risk of losing you know

sheds of cattle right

heads of cattle equals money right and

so

you don't have that many people doing it

but that's where you pay the premium

the ones that do it people do want to

eat healthier they do

want you know no additives in their in

in their meat products they don't want

the steroids they don't want

you know all that stuff that's been

pumped into our products

in the united states forever they're

getting

yeah absolutely we don't want anything

synthetics we don't want

anything artificial absolutely it makes

total sense yeah makes total sense

but it just worked it seemed to work out

i mean every single program out of the

20 briskets that i talked about that we

tried before we opened up

uh all fell under that category yeah the

difference was this

was the great uh the grass fed yeah and

i promise you it was the last one i

tried because i had grass-fed back in

the 90s

and it was god-awful this was the most

phenomenal

brisket that i had ever tried and i can

literally eat

two two strips of it

two slices that's it because i'm i'm

full after that right it's that rich of

a product yeah

no and the fat just melts in your mouth

versus a grain fed where

you kind of get that marbly feeling in

your mouth where

the fat's just it's not broken down yeah

and

you know it goes back to me saying every

little place that i tried

what did i not want in my barbecue right

and that was one of the things well they

wanted that fat

i mean this is one of the big

misconceptions about people think that

animal fats are bad

but you know our ancestors for you know

a half a million years

you know i ate the animal you know in

eight different organs you know whether

it be the heart

liver everything else but

you know people think oh you know

vegetable based diets are the way to go

but

um you look at vegetable oil it's one of

the worst things on the face of the

planet for you and compared to

you know the fats and you know

animal meat i mean it's not even a toss

up i mean you

get plaque building up in your arteries

from

you know this continual consumption of

vegetable oils as opposed to

you know as long as you're keeping

relatively healthy you're getting some

kind of exercise and getting some

nutrients that

you know animal fat is not actually bad

for you and your body can deal for it

with it very well because we've had half

a million years

of being able to deal with this in our

stomachs

you know whereas these concentrated fats

you take things like you know

corn syrup all these other things i mean

our body was never designed to actually

deal with those type of things

yeah exactly so if if you were to come

over to my house right now

and you were to tell me uh

i'm going to teach you how to smoke a

brisket

walk me through that i'm i'm just trying

to smoke a brisket for my family

i'm obviously i'm not running a

restaurant i'm not trying

to be sean right i just want to smoke

brisket what

what pointers would you give me as far

as from

when i walk into the grocery store to

the time i put it on the table at my

house what what should i do if i'm gonna

smoke a brisket

that's a great question so the number

one thing that i would start out with

is picking your your product the brisket

you're gonna smoke

right and going to the grocery store

costco sells all

all prime products now you can go there

and get those dime a dozen

but when you're picking out your brisket

you want you want a brisket

to start with that when you pick it up

and you hold it from

the the point you don't want the flap

to lay over well now hang on hang on you

got to explain that to us now what's the

flat and what's the point

all right so i know what i know what

you're talking about but not everybody

listening knows what you're talking

about layman's terms

pick it up from the heavy side of the

brisket okay in the grocery store with

two hands

holding it from the heavy side and if

that if the

the skinny side of the brisket folds

over

by more than half there's not enough

intermuscular

uh fat marbling to where you're going to

achieve

a great brisket for the outcome so i can

give you all the

pointers on the smoking it but it all

starts with the meat

so you got to be able to pick out that

right piece of meat

you want it to you want it to lean a

little bit when you're holding it from

the heavy

end you want that flat to fall down a

little bit

but if it just if it folds in half set

that one back on the shell

and then you move on to to your smoker

you know so so when i go in the store

and i

knock on it like a watermelon i'm doing

the wrong thing

oh yeah yeah oh okay okay that's another

coconut well well

yeah that's what the wolf taught me you

you knock on the brisket and if it

sounds hollow then it's not good to

smoke so

scratch that off the list do you you

don't know what you're talking about

that's not that

it's definitely you can tell by how much

intermuscular marbling is gonna have

by holding it from that heavy end and

seeing how

how much that flat bends over

and if it if it just falls over you

don't have any inner muscular marbling

in there

therefore that end of the brisket the

thin side of the brisket

is going to be extremely dry what you

want is something

that slightly droops like like

you know a drawbridge or whatever right

just just a a slight bend in it you

don't want it to stick straight out

because then

you have way too much inner muscular fat

you want

you want a slight bend to it and if you

get that

then you're starting with a great

product now now what's the difference

between

you know maybe a fantastic quality meat

and an average quality meat price wise

per pound is it

really kind of huge and talking about

economies of scale i mean obviously

running a restaurant

you're having to like ordering a ton of

meat

i mean that you know everybody has to

worry about the bottom end especially

you know now but you know is there a lot

of difference in terms of how you're

purchasing it i mean the end user like

if

the shepherd and i went into a

restaurant i mean we're just if we order

a steak or we order whatever

we're getting what we're getting but for

you is the purchaser at the front end

you know is there is there a huge

difference between that super high

quality and that kind of

medium average quality there's not a uh

a huge difference i guess the best way

to put it the biggest difference is

is what a sold wholesale or commodity

is a lot different than some of the

programs that we can get on

as smaller restaurants because they

don't have the capabilities of

selling this great product

with the volume that some of these

retailers do

so when you talk i mean a piece of meat

can be grated

prime right right but just with that

brisket test

that uh that i just described and if

you're picking out a brisket for the

house

you know you can get a prime prime

brisket that still

folds over it's grated prime you know

it's grated on the cow

it's not great but i i think there's a

lot of people

that don't even understand that

like you say the prime grade it you know

you

you see that what is it the usda

prime choice or whatever and you kind of

get fooled with

advertising and you say oh well there's

this sticker on the meat so it must be

good right it so there's a a lot of

discounteds there

so walk us through you know what if if

you're gonna go

buy this brisket and you've told us you

know here's how you hold it here's what

you're looking at but

this usda choice usda prime

whatever i mean do we pay attention to

that as the normal consumer

or do we go more with a little bit of

research of knowing hey you pick it up

you look at it this way

well since the the the cattle for for

whether it be put it out as

select choice prime

you take that in in consideration that's

a great grading program

but you're still going to have some

prime that's not going to grade out

as high as other primes right this is

this is

the product when people think of prime

they think of choice and all that

yeah the misconception is it's like this

meat is being graded after it's

butchered

right that's not the case yeah it's

being graded

on the hoof yeah sure you know this this

cow is being graded on the hook

yeah so you there can be drastic

differences in in the quality you know i

was

the corporate chef for bob's steak and

chop house and

i could get in a prime tenderloin

that i could cut into and it would look

like wagyu beef right

the marbling just paper thin white

and pink shreds through through through

the meat

beautiful piece of meat the next prime

tinder

might not look like that so there are

variances there because it is grated

on the hoof i mean it's not it's not

grated after it's slaughtered

gotcha so so when you're at the

supermarket

it's important to have that knowledge

when you're picking out your meat

as as far as you know what you're what

you're looking for and everybody has

different

preferences you know that brisket that

folds over might be perfect for somebody

that likes it lean and doesn't like a

lot of fat in their meat

it might work out perfect for them but

for you know

us at smoking windmill you know we ask

each customer

would you like it chopped or sliced lean

or moist

a hundred percent of the time because we

want to get it right for you i i went to

a

barbecue place and they would always ask

do you want it from the lean side of the

fatty side

kind of the same thing yeah you know and

a lot of people don't know

and once again kind of going into the

grating of the meat i mean

i don't know you know i i don't know i

i know what i like to eat and in our

podcast we had with our buddy bill who

who digs shallow holes right i i talked

you up about i

i used to go in your restaurant and i

you would come out and you'd say oh max

is here and you'd come out and you'd say

hello

and say well what do you want and i

would say sean i i don't know what i

want

just go cook me something because i know

whatever you're going to cook i'm going

to like

so i've always had this idea for a

restaurant

and and you're free to take this

idea for a restaurant and you're going

to tell me why this won't work but

i've always wanted to have a restaurant

where i could walk in

and sit down and not know what i'm going

to eat and just have somebody bring me

out something to eat

you know it's it's a great idea and i've

had that

same idea but it sucks and you're

telling me

you know hey max you were you were not

in the

restaurant industry and this is why this

won't work but

it doesn't suck you're you're limiting

yourself to a more

adventurous crowd instead of a broader

crowd

yeah well there's always been that joke

you know

you ask your wife you say you know okay

well i'm going to take you out to eat

tonight honey where do you want to go

well

i don't know i've always said you know

we create a restaurant called

i don't know slash i don't care i'm

there

and and then you always could take the

wife there because they always say that

but then of course once you say

well let's go here and then she says

well i don't want to go there

but you just said i don't know where i

don't care yeah

why can't we just go there i've always

thought that never works

yeah how great would a restaurant be

that that just had that

i mean i always wanted to walk into a

restaurant

and say you know and like you said it

when you were younger you worked at

babes chicken dinner house i i remember

that in roanoke and you walked in

you didn't have a choice it was how many

people are in your party and what are

you drinking

and then they just brought you the fried

chicken and then they started

expanding out and everything else and

it's a different rabbit hole but

i i would like to be able to just walk

into a restaurant

sit down and just be surprised of

what i'm eating you know how many times

i go into a restaurant and i just

i don't feel like making a decision i

got to make decisions for people all day

long

well okay so so you know what i don't

know

right i didn't even think about this so

as a chef

when you go into a restaurant how do you

order food

well if i if i'm picking the restaurant

it's gonna be a an

hour to two hour process because

clarisse and i don't go out that often

fair enough fair enough so but but okay

so

so you and clarissa your wife by the way

uh

clarissa uh you're taking her out for an

anniversary dinner and you're going to a

nice restaurant

you sit down you open the menu

how are you figuring out what you were

eating as

as a professional chef how are you

looking at that menu figuring out what

you want to eat

the most abnormal thing on the menu

so why what i can't get anywhere else

because i want to try it and i want to i

want to see how they prepare it

and then that's where myself being a

chef

where i can get creative and say i had

this it was it was good

lobster it was obstacles and muppet

eyeballs or yeah or it was

great and i wanted to i wanted to play

off of it

but i'm always looking every time i go

out to a restaurant and why i have such

a hard time finding a restaurant

is i want something different i don't

want the normal fare when i go out

i can i can cook all this stuff myself

so a lot of times when i go out i might

not feel like making a decision i look

at the server and say

what do you recommend and i said don't

tell me the most expensive thing on the

menu

right that's your best thing here so so

let's pretend for a minute that the

server doesn't recommend the most

expensive thing you know

and and you're at a white tablecloth

kind of place and of course they they

always tell you what specials are

and i've got to be honest with you when

i go to one of those places

i'm like oh yeah tell me about specials

but at the same time

i'm looking at the prices like okay well

i'm i'm

cheap you know i i'm super cheap so

i'm trying to get the best value for my

dollar

in you know i'm i'm a terrible

restaurateur

as far as that but

if you could tell somebody as far as a

server

to try to steer away from you know

trying to encourage somebody

as a server from saying don't recommend

the most expensive thing

what what did you say and and i keep

saying

you know i i say this in theory and i've

known you know you've

had these restaurants before so what

what was your

communication to the servers of

saying what to recommend so

you know and by the way two-part

question

how can a a person trying to attend that

restaurant

know if they're just trying to recommend

the most expensive thing on the menu

or the server actually knows what

they're talking about

that's a it's a great question and one

that i've i've tackled at every

every restaurant that i've been at and

it's about

training the servers on on the product

knowledge

and at the end of the day if if i guess

say if it's a state and you know what do

they normally

go towards and it's a filet well just

because

we have a bone-in ribeye that sells

phenomenally and

people enjoy it it's obvious that that

that individual loves a leaner cut steak

right they don't want a rib eye i don't

matter if it has a bone on it or not

they don't want that so even if you sell

them on it they're not going to enjoy it

so i think the number one key to your

question is is tapping in

to your customer having those

conversations

and then steering them in the right

direction from there if it's somebody

that's undecided or maybe pickier than

others

like myself when i say when i tell a

server and say

you know whatever you recommend don't

even tell me just surprise me

you know that's how i am i'm adventurous

like that and as long as it's cooked

good and it's a great quality

and it's not going to matter to me but

that's not the case

normal you know servers or or whatever

do they hate the fact that

somebody like me or or even like you uh

and of course we're completely different

on this but

i'm gonna take somebody like me if if i

say just surprise me do

do servers typically hate that i

wouldn't say so

i think i've had a lot of great servers

that have worked under me over the years

that embrace that and you utilize it as

a challenge

uh to give their customer the best

experience they can have because at the

end of the day that's what they're

getting tipped off of

right if they have a crappy meal never

mind the chef going out to the table or

whatever

at the end of the day it's reflecting on

the money that they're putting in their

pocket at the end of the night

so if you if you do the research and the

training with

with your staff about what your product

is

this is how it eats and and educate them

that away

then they can steer the guests in the

right direction right so so why

why do we not have restaurants where a

server comes up

and and asks a question let's say i'm

out with my wife right

and says okay what do you all like to

eat

you know it's always you know have you

ever been here before

and and then you have that uncomfortable

conversation like yeah i've been here oh

welcome back and

okay wait why are we going through this

right why do we not have

restaurants that say hey you know

thank you for coming what kind of food

do you like what

what were you expecting to come here and

eat tonight because i want to

present you with something that you

might like to eat

what because i can be honest with you

sean i i've been to

tons and tons of restaurants but i've

never had a server come up to me

and try to tell me hey i've got an

idea of what you might like to eat what

why do we not see that

can i interrupt there real quick how

long does it take

you to work out that a

server really knows nothing about the

menu or the quality of the food and

you realize they're just kind of reading

off a script

on their eighth day of being employed

when they have to take that menu test

right and they can't tell you anything

about it and they get all the questions

wrong

guess what they're never going to work

out because they've never taken it

serious

yeah i mean if any of one of us in this

room started a job

and we were we were asked questions

whether it be food or whatever

area industry you work in if

you showed up after eight days of being

trained

and you could not answer the questions

on the test

that shows me you have zero dedication

right choice that you made in this

business because i i hate

when people read you oh here's the dish

of the day

and it literally sounds like some type

of regurgitation

and they don't really know kind of about

the quality of the food it's just

hey we've got this stuff left over and

the chef has kind of made this thing

and you don't know how good it's going

to be i mean i know you said you worked

to barbs and i love bob's i mean i lived

in grapevine for about five years but

you know then i learned to go to central

market in south lake and i learned how

to flavor steaks and everything else and

make steaks which tasted as good as

barbs for

you know maybe a fifth or a sixth of the

price and again that's nothing

bob's i mean i i would take anybody

there i mean fantastic steak but

you know i think once people get

educated and their palette changes

just like both of you have said that you

know if you had that

surprise me because you want you know to

expand

the taste i mean we all like eating the

things we like to eat

so every now and then we want to expand

that palette and get

extra experience but one one thing we're

missing

especially in the united states is

what used to be an event to go out to

eat

you know you you have all the chain

outfits you

you have the drive-throughs and

everything in and it's just a

meal delivery system it's sustenance you

you're just

doing that and there's so many

restaurants to me

that i feel like they're missing out on

the fact of giving somebody an

experience because if

if i would go in like i'm describing to

you and i would say

hey you know what somebody asked me

hey what do you like to eat and i kind

of say well you know i'm a meat and

potatoes guy i don't really like

vegetables and whatever and then they

bring me out something great

the next thing i'm going to do boom i

mean just

just like that is i'm going to tell

everybody else look

i was able to go to this place and i was

able to say

this is what i like to eat and they

brought me

some great food exactly and you

like i said before you you can't fight

against the

the guest's wish right at the end of the

day you want them to have the utmost

experience

so you know smoking windmill barbecue we

ask a hundred percent of the questions

the guests might feel like they're

answering a thousand questions and

sometimes they laugh and was like

you got any other questions for me i'm

like yeah can i get your last four of

your social security number

right but we're asking those questions

to make sure that we get it 100 right

for them because at the end of the day

it's not about what i like

it's not about what you like it's not

about what you like

it's about what the customer likes we

can appease that

by a simple conversation and when you

come into smoking windmill the

conversations that we have with our

guests

and and the way that we interact with

them you can go through

social media and all of the scoring

systems

you're going to have a phenomenal

experience you're going to feel like

family when you walk in there

and you're going to feel you're going to

be family when you come back

in there and that's what we like to

create

and there's not enough of that right now

there's not

there there really isn't and and the

fact that y'all are actually

doing that is is great because uh

you know in here we go again uh

hate chili's but it you know i don't get

that feeling

when i go to chili's yeah to me it's

like a drive-through mcdonald's

but sitting down for a drive through

mcdonald's experience but

one thing i wanted to ask you what's the

best advice you have ever had from a

mentor in terms of

how to set up a restaurant and do your

own thing

that's a tough one because uh you know

being

being the corporate chef of bob's and

having the opportunity to set up

restaurants with maybe an existing hotel

uh had this space and being able to

maximize the space and make the best of

it and make it the most

efficient kitchen you know that's what i

took a lot of pride in

so i used the carlsbad bob's location at

the omni resort down there i was given

37 feet of

space to work with in a single line

eight foot wide

to fit everything in to produce

everything that bob's did to the quality

that they produced it too

and i i thoroughly enjoyed

designing that kitchen because at the

end of the day it was

it's it's the most streamlined kitchen

that bob's has

and i took that knowledge from there

yeah and and

and haven't had those experiences to

what you walk into

at smoking windmill barbecue you're

walking into a building that's 34 feet

long

and 12 feet wide but guess what

i've made the the best of it i mean it's

it's the most

efficient sure place you're going to

walk into yeah you gotta

you got a smoker out back that holds 72

briskets at

one time but being able to

to work in those tight spots so i guess

the best way to answer your question is

when you have a boss that tells you you

have to

make this work in this setting that was

the best advice i got and that would be

from steven rosenstock

and uh and you know i had to make it

work and that was a challenge that i

embraced

and i always use i was just talking to a

couple chef buddies

yesterday that come up and visit me and

i was

telling them the exact same story

because

that that kitchen there in carlsbad

california in southern california

is my pride and joy for the space that i

had to work with yeah

and knowing how efficient that kitchen

runs now yeah now i have to ask you this

question and i wanted to be

the shepherd to it because if he doesn't

get

the age of covid into every podcast

we've done this year then

he can't sleep at night how was i mean

you know obviously this came out of

nowhere for us all

but how has covert affected you in terms

of how

you've had to do your business i mean i

obviously is still running

and a lot of people have felt by the

wayside but

you know how long can you see maybe if

this goes on

and there's more shutdowns i mean

exactly how you can adjust or evolve

your business to cope with

but you know by coincidence covet was a

blessing in disguise you know we opened

up at the end of

that end of november 2019

right right most businesses say

that's the worst possible time you could

have ever opened up

for our business since we're built so

smoking windmill was built

based off of the majority of our

business

carryout we have a 24 by 80 foot deck

and that's great and we love to utilize

it and we utilize it for a lot of

purposes you know bands on fridays and

saturday nights

right but at the end of the day

kovit helped us this was a brand new

restaurant

yeah everybody else got shut down we

didn't

we didn't get shut down because we were

already geared towards

carry out service right so

the amount the amount of business and

exposure that we got in those first

six to eight months of being open yeah

are invaluable

you would it could never be replicated

again

and it's by pure luck it wasn't by plan

obviously none of us knew this was

coming on but

we got that exposure early on

everybody else was closed so where are

you going to go yeah you're going to go

to the places that are open

we're a brand new restaurant now do you

do delivery and stuff

we do um we don't

deliver any more we were doing that for

a short time

what we do do is we do have some

catering options we would deliver the

product

at this point in time of our business we

don't stay on site

right but we'll deliver the product or

it's a it's a

pickup program for the texas pistols uh

select volleyball team

two weeks ago we did 200 uh

chopped brisket sandwiches wow right

and they pick they picked a mo we do

that delivery we are in the process

of of trying to acquire a

catering trailer and it would have the

same smoke or a

smaller scale on the back of it than

what we

operate with now because our whole our

whole end game and what our business is

built around

is the best quality product that you can

get fresh

every day so when we sell out we sell

out for a reason

you know that's what we projected for

for the day

selling out is good for us sure it's our

at the end of the day we're not serving

product that was left over from the day

before the day before that

everything is fresh when you come in and

we're never going to stray away from

that people ask me about a brick and

mortar

i'm not doing a brick and mortar i'm

staying in this footprint we are going

to expand and we are gonna have other

locations but it'll never be a brick and

mortar start

it'll be in this concept yeah the

shepherd and i just want to say at this

point if you do have

two day three day old meat and you need

to get rid of it

if you want to drop it off yeah well

well

so what's your future thing in terms of

i mean do you just want to grow

this one thing or do you have expansion

franchise on your mind i mean what so

that's a that's a

interesting question because my my

business partner and i have been talking

a lot about this in the last few weeks

yes we want partners down the road we

don't want to franchise

as soon as we franchise it'll become

like

every other franchise the quality goes

down we refuse to do that

we want our finger on the pulse 100 of

the time

and we want money in every single

operation versus a partner

or franchisee putting in 100 of the

money

we want our finger on the pulse we do

want to expand

we will expand and it's going to take

the the right setting just like what we

have up there at area 114 with marshall

margaritas and smoke and windmill

barbecue

you know that was a prime opportunity

prime location and we're going to look

for those

and we are going to expand in the future

and we are going to find partners in the

future but we will never franchise good

deal

i like that so uh

my mother loves

well done steaks

how how do you feel as a chef about

when you see a order for a well

done steak everybody has their own

personal preferences

if you ask me that you know 20 years ago

in the infancy of

me being an executive chef and coming

out of out of school and everything

i would say the opposite but at the end

of the day

now the challenges is how to create the

best well-done stay

the best well-done steak is not leather

it can still have juice in it

it doesn't need to be present right it

doesn't need to be treated as any

other stick if you went over to my

parents house

right now with a prime cut of meat

using you know a a random

stove or random grill you could

cook my mother a well done steak and

she'd be

extremely happy with it it'd be the

best well-done stick shoes ever i i i

don't doubt that

and that's the thing you have to

understand because the difference

between

uh suntan and cremation yeah and i think

that's the thing when people think of a

well done state they think of cremation

right you know but it really if you

think about per piece of me yeah

it's a third bat from that when you talk

about well done

look when i grew up my my father taught

me

you have a state medium well

right and that's where i always ate a

steak

and then i kind of traipsed into the

medium

area and my father always told me you

know

it's not done and now i get it medium

rare

every once in a while i'll do rare but

i'm not

a huge fan but i'm more of a medium rare

yeah but i remember taking my mother

to nice steakhouses and everything and

she always orders a filet

yeah and she wants it butterflied

well done oh i was thinking and that's

always what you i was exactly the same

way i mean that

i think until i was like in my mid-20s

if i ate

steak you know the cow pretty much had

to die in a barn fire

you know like you picked out the bones

and there's some meat left and that's

how i'd eat it because i didn't know any

better you know i mean you use cooked

that way

but equally then i didn't know about

marination

sure about spices and depending on how

you have the meat

spices and marination take a whole

different effect on it

and again that affects your power you

know some people again this this

snobbery comes in

about you know having a well done steak

but

spices taste very very different on a

well done steak especially if they're

sprinkled on there

and stuff before you know while you're

cooking

some initiatives you know everybody has

their own preference and i don't think

there should be a snobbery with it

but knowing their shame being when when

the individuals in the kitchen are being

trained

it's like just because it comes in well

done yeah you got to cook that with as

much passion as you do

a medium rare well it's actually it's

actually harder because you get half

such

absolutely when you get past that

tipping point you really have to watch

that to make sure again it's not

cremated whereas getting up to medium

you know i mean that that's okay because

you know there's there's some play there

yeah

and and that makes total sense and

there's a lot of play there especially

if you're resting your meat we're

getting off of

the barbecue but if you if you rest that

product and pull it off at medium well

by the time it rests for 10 minutes it's

going to be well done you're going to

retain all those juices

now let me i'll make something so let me

ask you this how do you promote yourself

at the moment

do you do a lot of social media is it

like word of mouth

for for the moment it's a word of mouth

we do have our facebook page which we

have

a ton of followers on that that we love

dearly that have supported us over the

last year

that's on facebook at smoke and windmill

bbq

and then we have instagram uh working on

a website

currently we've done sponsorships with

uh

different you know volleyball and and

and

things within the community sure but uh

for the most part during the first year

it's been um social media with instagram

and facebook

and then uh just you know local presence

and

making yours putting your product out

there and and

doing the best job that we can do on a

daily basis to

to make people realize is like

got to drive to aurora texas 100

north madison drive and right off of 114

and try this barbecue because i

guarantee you once you do

you're not going back to this i mean i

mean we'll we'll get all those links

you know um on our facebook page

and stuff because as i said i mean i i

don't take

food very lightly i mean it takes a lot

to impress me and your food shawn i mean

it's

it is tough you know it's top quality i

mean i i would drive

i mean i know you're not 45 minutes or

an hour away from where i live but if i

was taking somebody to eat good quality

food

i would take i would take them to your

restaurant because your food is

fantastic well thank you

we'd give be happy to give them the full

tour a lot of people ask since it's such

a small building it's like

do you smoke on site it's like heck our

smoker's almost half the size of our

building

yeah right we smoke on the side and i

open up that back door and there's this

huge stainless steels

old hickory smoker right in their face

in there yeah these guys are doing it

right

wow yeah and quite honestly

a lot of that is what is missing with

restaurants

you know the the fact that you know it

you're you're doing it right you're

doing it absolutely right and

in your history with your culinary

experience

and now getting into the barbecue world

and you know we we had those burnt ends

the other night with old bill vaughn

and they were fantastic i mean it you

you've got a good thing going there and

so

so we hope the best for you so uh before

we close

just uh review with the listeners

how to find you on social media uh

all that good stuff uh you can find us

on

on google you can find us on facebook

with the smoke and windmill

bbq you can find us on instagram

uh with smoking windmill bbq and

coming in the next month will be a

website outside of that uh

you know yelp uh which i don't put a lot

of trust into but we still have great

oh oh that that sounds like a rabbit

hole

that sounds like a rabbit hole maybe we

should have talked about because

i i i know all about the yelp so

so i i totally get that so uh

apparently you know we here's our

our third person from aurora texas

you know lots of stuff going on in

aurora texas

everybody needs to go and and show up

and

have an alien ale beer and have some

smoking windmill barbecue

and get a hot dog and it is it's a

destination it's like

you go you go there on a friday night we

have

live music from seven to nine saturday

night we have live music from seven to

nine

we're open for that during throughout

the week we on thursdays we got

movies for the kids and everything on

the deck uh wednesday is karaoke night

we got a ton of stuff for the families

and we're only going to be adding more

in the future

i i i wonder if they would allow a

couple of just random

podcasters to just show up for this

area 114 and you know maybe have an

event there

i mean we we we've had so many people

from there that

that we like i mean we we we love

smoking windmill barbecue

it it's great food we like alien l beer

we we love the beer maybe we need to

just put a little event together i was

really worried that you were saying we

need to go and be one of the musical

events because

as we've no no that's your problem

that's what you keep wanting to sing

and as we've mentioned a few times we

are going to do an offshoot of this

podcast

called the wolf and the shepherds sing

the classics

um yeah we're still arguing on our way

through this

the shepherd's gonna play the guitar the

shepherd's gonna play the guitar and i'm

gonna sing but we're also gonna get some

guests because i'm actually determined

to get bill back

and we're gonna sing maybe some

fleetwood map classics or something

which is like 20 years before his time

but i i just figured you know we might

as well make the most of it

yeah but but but the point is we we want

people to actually

listen to this and if they keep hearing

you saying

we're going to scare them well i figured

if we if he's got an outdoor venue i

figured we could push them back into the

bar to drink more

liquor and he's actually going to make

more profit on that than them sitting

outside nursing their drinks i think

when i'm back there chopping briskets

and everything

yeah no one's complained they've found

yeah i find it pretty humorous but uh

yeah other than that ah

well great well well sean merchant thank

you

very much for joining us today on this

episode of the wolf and the shepherd

and we'll catch you all next time