Episode 34 - Interview With Kevin M. Brennan

welcome to this episode of the wolf and

the shepherd today i've got with me

kevin

m brennan actor writer and producer

kevin's glad to

glad that you can make it on the show

appreciate you being here

yeah great to be here max millington

good to see you good to hear you it's

been a minute since we've seen each

other in real life and i'm back home

right now in keller and could

be doing this with you man thank you for

having me yeah absolutely

on computers just across town but hey

that's right

i know you're here in texas so uh we're

about to have you back in the lone star

state and i'm i'm sure you're glad to

kind of be back and and see a little bit

of hometown yeah

and see you very very i know you come

you come back home every once in a while

but you know looking back in

our days way back when it's changed a

lot around here

it sure has man i mean i i mean i love

coming home to see my folks and see all

my friends and you guys and stuff

it's always always fun but it is it is

definitely not the town that we grew up

in

kind of alluding to that you know we

we've known each other for years and

everything but

uh for those folks that don't know

exactly who kevin and brennan is

walk us through your background and and

what you you know kind of started out

and what made you want to pursue this

actor producer writer uh

kind of yeah yeah um well it all in fact

did begin in florence elementary where

you and i met

oh my goodness uh no yeah you know

around like

i could say middle school or junior high

man like we you know

one of our good buddies russ bonicki had

a camcorder that he bought and uh

or his dad's or something like that and

we were always just running around

making stupid videos

um they always had fun doing and then in

high school

uh me and russ and matt harshbarger

started doing the video announcements

for the school so every morning when it

would you know air on the tv

we you know we were the guys who were

doing that and we were always trying to

make them fun and do like sketches

around them and we actually

you know cared way more about doing the

sketches than we did about the

announcements

and so we were doing that a lot and then

i was also doing

theater classes in high school um with

mrs lewis

and uh she was great and uh we did the

one act play

and all that kind of thing so

competition with that all kind of stuff

um and then also like in high school is

when i started my first band

with a lot of guys you know uh and so i

started playing music and you know

playing little gigs here around town and

sometimes even going out to deep ellum

to play the big clubs um

so that was kind of all you know where

it all kind of started and then

after uh we graduated high school went

down to university of texas in austin so

now in austin

where i majored in radio tv films i got

my film degree there

and that was you know the immersing into

the whole history and you know technical

of cinema and all that kind of stuff you

know what you do when you're in college

um and i was still playing in bands

there you know in austin

uh playing a bunch of bands and doing

music stuff down there as well uh

and acting actually down in austin was

the first time i ever acted in a

feature film yeah because uh i remember

i was going to get money from the atm

and there was a little just

handwritten sign in atm said want to be

in a movie

and realizing now how dangerous that

could have turned out to be

what kind of movie um so it's had those

little pull tabs on it i pulled a tab

and i

called the number and it was a guy who's

in town from los angeles

uh who was making his first feature film

and he was casting he was shooting in

austin and uh and so i auditioned for

part i got a part and then i also

ended up helping him sort of make the

movie because i was interested in

filmmaking

so that was yeah the first feature i

ever acted in um and then

after we graduated i hung around austin

sorry yeah i hung around austin for a

minute just trying to make the band

thing work and i was

living in this tiny little apartment

playing in band and like waiting tables

and substitute teaching and it was just

not

going great so uh one of my really good

friends kelly williams

uh who he still lives down in austin

he's a producer down there

he's a huge comedy nerd and he was like

hey man i'm going to go to chicago

and i'm going to take classes at second

city and you should come with me because

you're not doing anything here

i was like and i was born in chicago

actually i we moved to texas when i was

in second grade so i grew up here but

i was born there and family there and so

i was aware of second city

um but i didn't really have an

understanding like what the theater was

i knew like sctv and i knew some of the

famous you know names that come out of

it

but i had no idea what the training

center was or what you know what's going

on there so he was like let's go up

there for a weekend

uh you know and let's check it out and

see what you know we'll get a little you

know tour of the classes and whatever

so we went up there and we watched a

show and it blew me away man

you know improv is such like a known

thing now

um and not to age us some data too much

but you know this was before

whose line you know was it anyway was on

the air you know which i think was

america's sort of big

in a lot of ways introduction to improv

as an art form um even though it'd been

happening you know in theater circles in

chicago

and stuff and uh for years but anyway we

go up there and we watch the second city

show and it blows me away

we stay for the improv set and i'm like

holy cow this is

this is what i want to be doing this is

amazing i love this i love they're

making up it's so cool

and then we did like a little tour of

the training center and we're like oh

there's writing classes or improv

classes and

it's this like community of people who

are all just making you know cool stuff

happen and sketches and i was like oh

man let's do it

so we come back to texas after a little

trip and we start you know looking at

apartments online and like getting ready

to go

and i remember uh two weeks before we

left uh kelly

said hey man i'm not gonna go because i

just got a full-time job

at the austin film festival yeah as like

one of their head programmers

um and he was like and i want to stay

for this because i've you know i've been

volunteering there and i want to do it

and i was like well i'm going to still

go to chicago we you know

ran this apartment whatever and i

grabbed our buddy michael gallagher

we went together up there and we we

drove off

uh the day we drove off was september

12th of 2001 so the day after

9 11. it was it was weird man it was

very very surreal very surreal driving

like across the country with like no

airplanes in the sky

and you know the country on alert and

you know i mean

there was even a moment where we were

kind of thinking like should we turn the

u-haul towards new york and just go see

if we could help out

and maybe live there for a few months to

be a part of like you know i

know what that means help out or

whatever but anyway we kept we kept

going towards chicago but it was a weird

time

um and then yeah got chicago man and uh

that was i mean that was a big life

changer that was uh

lived there for five years i started

taking writing classes at second city in

chicago at the training center

started uh you know doing a lot of

improv and doing a lot of sketch comedy

shows i started a sketch comedy group

with some buddies called the mantasticks

and we were kind of doing our own thing

where we would book our own shows and

put our own shows and everything and

you know i'm not going to say we made

tons of money but you know we made a

little bit of money

i mean we all still have day jobs and

stuff but it was nice it was like the

first time kind of seeing like

oh i see how there's a way to do this

you know um

definitely need a little more success at

it but here's how the you know how the

needle is threaded in a way um so that

was great and met a lot of my likes

to this day like best friends that i

have out in l.a and guys who i work with

to this day

um and so yeah chicago for five years um

that's where i got my sag card

it was in chicago because i had a tiny

tiny tiny

little part in a little movie called the

lake house

let's see all right you're kind of

jumping ahead there because i

oh i remember seeing the lake house

with the wild and so we're watching the

movie and

you come up as the waiter and i'm

looking i'm like

that's kevin she's like that's kevin

i didn't know he was in this movie and

she was like who

i'm like you you remember him you met

him years ago but i'm

that's kevin he's the waiter and that's

when i i reached back out to you i'm

like dude i

saw you in a movie i didn't been so long

since we had caught up and you're like

yeah man

i'm i'm doing the movie thing now so

yeah yeah so that was kind of a wild

thing it was uh

you know again i was in chicago at the

time and they were shooting the movie in

chicago and an old college friend of

mine

she was the assistant to the director on

that movie

and everything like any movie that you

know leaves la or you know shoots in

another city

all the main roles are cast you know

from los angeles with you know the big

names celebrity actors

but they'll do you know all the little

side roles of like the waiter or you

know like the valet guy

or you know like the doctor who tells

them the bad news for one scene that's

you know

generally that's local casting that they

get from the city they're in because

then they don't have to pay to fly

somebody first class out there and hotel

and all that

um so my friend who's the assistant

director she was in town and we were

hanging out

and she was like hey so there's this

part for a waiter and

if you you know if you if you audition

for it you know i'll do everything i can

to

tell the director to cast you or

whatever and i was like amazing that

would be great

um so i auditioned for it and you know

she pulled her strings or whatever

and i mean not to degrade my own talent

it is only like three lines um so

literally a monkey could have done it

but anyway um

but it was uh but it was a scene with

sandra bullock i mean barely

seen i mean you know so uh but it made

the final coat of the movie so

i got my sad card and went to the

theater on opening weekend and watched

it

that was a big big kick um

and shortly uh oh and i think it's

funny part of that story as well is when

my shoot date was for that movie

my band that i was in in chicago called

decimators we were out on tour

uh and i got the roll and it was like a

quick like hey we need you here for this

shooting day we're out on the road

so i had to get a flight from

albuquerque in the middle of our tour

to go back to do this one day of

shooting and then i got back on a plane

the next day and flew back out and

finished out the tour with my dad

but i was it was what i needed to do um

so yeah so then after

chicago i was just going like i said for

five years and it kind of got to the

point where

you know and i think a lot of chicago

you know performers and actors who feel

this way is like

you know if you can make it in one of

the chicago theaters

that's amazing and there's amazing

chicago theater scene there and a lot of

amazing actors

and if you can become a part of that in

a regular basis that's awesome and then

occasionally a movie or tv show will

come to town and

well now they have i'm sorry bang

uh now they have like chicago magic

goggle fire which color pd so a lot of

chocolate actors getting you know work

off that but you know back

when i was there they weren't all the

shows so kind of the best you could hope

for

as an actor in chicago would be like

you're part of a prestigious theater

group and then occasionally a movie tv

show comes down you get a little role in

that you you know make

money whatever but that's kind of it you

know um

and that's great and i love that whole

scene but i've always you know been

really interested in tv and film and

making tv and phone be a part of that

scene

which you know back then this was 2006

you know it's like

la is the place you know i mean a lot of

production had had started moving to

canada you know like

there was that whole thing in the 90s

where a lot of production started moving

to canada for tax breaks

um and that only became you know more

and more and it's still happening today

but all the stuff with like atlanta is

was not a thing then that's not where

all the marvel movies were made you know

back then or anything like that

um so it was like yeah you got to go to

la you know or new york if you want to

do even you know bigger theater whatever

so yeah so in 2006 packed up the u-haul

again and

uh moved from chicago to la

and yeah man kind of thankfully

you know i'm very very thankful and

grateful for this is i have a really

really great

group of friends who i know from college

and also chicago

who had already moved out there um and

obviously i stayed in touch with them

so when i got to la i had like a really

solid group of friends i still have to

this day who we're all supportive of

each other

you know it's everybody who's you know

trying to be actors and writers and you

know directors all this kind of thing

so it's all people in the industry

because then i you know i meet

so many people in l.a who like they move

out by themselves they don't know

anybody and it is

it is a crushing city if you don't have

friends man and especially if you're

trying to do

the entertainment thing because nobody

cares about you you know

um so yeah so i was very lucky to have a

good friend support group kind of thing

out there

um and yeah when i got out there got

with one of my very

old chicago high school buddies or sorry

not high school college

uh buddies uh todd berger and then a

couple other chicago guys uh jeff grace

and blaise miller

who we all met chicago doing in province

second city and we started a comedy

group called the vacation years

um and we were very very early early

days

of uh youtube and we

were you know doing our little videos

and at the time we had like a monthly

show that we put up at this place in l.a

and we would do these short films and

then we would do a little improper to

sketch comedy but really we were kind of

focused on our short films because

that's what we really enjoyed doing

and that was kind of our outlet and back

then it was like you know dan hart was

doing channel 101 where you know he

had people do their shorts and swim in

the theater whatever and then youtube

came

and it sort of changed everything like

oh we don't need to have a monthly venue

do this we can put it online and

literally everyone in the world can

watch it

um so we started doing more and more

shorts and just putting them online on

youtube

and uh we did this one short back then

called google maps

which uh went viral which back then

going viral meant you had one million

views you know

because there weren't even that many

people looking at youtube anyway

uh but we did and it was featured on cnn

in this little clip and it was all just

about like the creepiness of like

you know the google maps like the camera

how the street view kind of like takes

pictures everything and

and in our version of it it comes inside

of these guys apartments and they're

like spies on them and it freaks them

out whatever

um so anyway that was like you know on

cnn and like feature whatever and then

we get a call from google

and uh they're like hey we saw your

video about our maps you know uh

software whatever

and uh you know we want to talk with you

and we're like well if you're gonna sue

us

we don't have anything there's nothing

to think

um and they're like no no we don't wanna

say no we wanna fly you up to mountain

view

and we wanna give you a tour of the

campus we want you to meet with our geo

team

we're like okay and so they fly the four

of us up there and they put us up in a

nice hotel and we go

tour the campus which is amazing and

mind-blowing uh

and then we sit down their geo team and

this was in 2007

i think um and they're like so hey so we

noticed when you guys did your

you know maps thing our user ship in

street view the function on google maps

it spiked like huge like

your video made made a bunch of people

realize we had this feature and made a

bunch of people engage with it right

so we're like well that's cool and

they're like well here's why we wanted

to talk to you

is because we have all these other maps

features we have something called

google earth which like i mean everybody

knows what this is now but back then it

was new

where we've mapped the earth and it

looks like a satellite and we have

google moon where we're mapping the moon

and we have all these other little

features like we have this thing called

google my maps where you can make your

own personal map of your life

we're like oh cool cool and they're like

we'd love for you guys to make some

videos about all these features

we're like oh okay like advertising

and they're like and they're like well

you know we're google and at the time

at the time if you probably remember

those facts their big thing was we're

google we don't advertise

because they were just like there was

just a search engine that is for the

world and for the masses and we don't

advertise on whatever

obviously that is very much changed um

so

so uh so we we came home they're like

you know go home think about it you know

if you want to learn some ideas by us or

whatever

and so we got home we're like man it was

cool and they were super nice people and

we you know who doesn't want to be in

business with google

right but at the same time they're not

offering to be in business with us

they're just asking us to do some favors

you know and and we kind of thought

about that you know for a little while

we're like you know what we're not gonna

be

google's just for no money um

so we said but they're a multi-billion

dollar

men now multi-trillion whatever

corporation like we got to get something

out of this if we want to do it so we

hit them up we're like hey

we know that you've just recently in the

news they just got into some partnership

with uh

sony and we're like hey we saw your

partnership with sony

you know we do these videos but we

borrow a friend's camera which at the

time we literally were

there's none of us on the camera and we

borrow a friend's hd camera and you know

it'd be really nice if we do more videos

for you guys if we

were given a sony hd camera to shoot

these videos on

and then we'll send them to you guys and

they'll be in hd quality it'll be

beautiful and they'll be great

and they wrote us back an email and

they're like this conversation never

happened

and then two days later a brand new five

thousand dollar sony hd camera showed up

on

todd berger's doorstep and we went and

we made like five more google videos

that they i mean they didn't ask for

approval on them or anything they were

just you know we just didn't well

however tone we want to do them and i

mean they're still on youtube you can

watch them but

um do you ever think that when you sent

that that the guys over at google

you know answered the email and

everything and then turned around and

laughed said

we just got these videos for real cheap

because we got one of these cameras

laying in the back room we're trying to

figure out what to do with so we gotta

send it to these guys out in california

and they're gonna do this

bro i mean absolutely and also i mean

you know you think about it like this

was again this is 2007.

and it's like that hd camera that they

sent us which at the time is five

thousand dollars

the like lowest end iphone right now has

a better camera

yeah um so yeah so you're 100 right

they're like oh we can get more videos

as you guys for you know a camera

sure great uh but we were stoked you

know because it was a

camera at the time and yeah so we when

did our thing and

we made five more videos and game to

them they were really happy with them

and whatever

uh and then we the real kind of trick

behind it was we took that camera

and then we made our first feature film

um

it was those guys i mentioned blaze

miller uh jeff grayson todd burger todd

berger

wrote and directed the movie was called

the scenesters or it is called the skin

sisters

uh me and jeff grace we produced it and

then all four of us acted in it

um and it was a man it was as

indie as you can possibly get it was it

was before kickstarter before indiegogo

you know any of that sort of go funding

any of that stuff

uh so it was us just literally calling

every person

we knew and being like we're making a

movie here's a little like investor

packet

and also if you don't want to invest

quote unquote we'll take a donation

you know whatever um and we had like

investment levels it was like if you

give us

you know less than 500 that's just a

donation if you invest anything over 500

that's an actual investment

and you can maybe get paid out if we

make a bunch of money or whatever um

and so yeah we i mean dude i you know

like carl henshaw i think gave us like

you know 200 bucks

like one of our good boys yeah we had

friends like you know pop a couple bucks

here and there

um and then we had like some actual like

you know big investors that

came in for you know multiple tens of

you know thousands of dollars

but still the budget of it was you know

minuscule compared to any sort of movie

you'd see in theaters

um and yeah and we it was ambitious it

was a ton of locations a huge cast

but we had a great crew an amazing crew

that all like worked for super cheap and

favors and

we gave everybody a little title bump so

we can make it worth the while um but

everybody's really you know excited

about it ambitious and

you know wanted just you know the whole

thing to succeed um and we did it we

made the movie it's and it uh ended up

playing a ton of film festivals and it

premiered at uh slam dance which is like

the

red-headed step child the sundance up in

park city uh

the more punk rock version um like you

say with uh

some of the people that you called in

for the favors and stuff you gave them a

title bump i mean that

that gives you more credit on imdb you

know and i'm

guessing and that's you know that's a

big deal in the

film industry to have all those credits

the acting credits the producer credits

all that

i mean it's kind of like yeah when i

look you up on imdb

there are 37 kevin brennan that's right

but there's only one kevin m so you were

but you're right there at the top you're

like no i'm kevin m brennan

that's right well it's funny you say

that because i mean that's

partly my doing but more so it's sags

doing screen actors guild

when i got my sag card no no two actors

can be registered with sag under the

same name

okay so when i went to register they

said you know what's your name what do

you want your you know screen name to be

and i was like kevin brown they're like

nope taken

it was like and they're like and they

said they're like if you want

we can contact the other kevin brennan

there might have been two of them even

um and then we can contact them and see

if they want to like you know get rid of

their membership or something like that

they're like but nobody ever does that

i was like no no no whatever and then i

was like what are my options they're

like a middle initial

i was like oh i can meet kevin m brennan

right yeah that'll do and i'm like okay

that's me

and then when i got into the wj which is

the writer's guild um

same same exact thing um except

there was already a kevin brennan there

was already a kevin m brennan

so my writing name when i write like

officially

is my full name kevin michael brown wow

really annoying really annoying i gotta

admit i mean

kevin brennan doesn't sound like that

common of a name

you know of course man be surprised

there's i mean

the the one big guy who always got

overshadows is there's this

stand-up comedian kevin brennan who he's

i think he's probably about 10 maybe 12

years older than us

and he's been around you know doing

stamp comedy forever and he wrote for

snl

so and then when i was starting to do

comedy stuff it was dude i've had like

my agents will get calls like i got a

call do you remember that uh

pete holm show crashing on hbo did you

watch that yeah

it was like pete holmes the stamp

community he had a show on hbo for a

couple seasons

and i get a call from my agent and

they're like hey man we just got a call

from crashing

they want to know your availability to

shoot like next tuesday

and i'm like dude i love crashing it's

one of my favorite shows right now

i guarantee you they're wanting the

other kevin brennan

i was like please call them back and say

that if they are talking about me i will

get on a plane to new york right now

but i guarantee they're talking about

the other guy and they're like okay

we'll check it out

and they just email me back yeah they

wanted the other guy

[Laughter]

anyway you know you never know what

doors that could have opened though you

know they're like for sure but kevin

running out there let's you know check

him out what oh

kevin oh you know a bit longer name so

maybe you know

maybe there's something there i i mean

honestly i should have just showed up

tell them yep that's me

um so anyway and also it's funny with

that name thing

um like so another way more famous

person

danny mcbride there is another writer

because dana mcbride you know he writes

a lot of movies and his own stuff

uh there's another writer named david

wright so whenever you watch a daniel

mcbride movie

it says written by danny r mcbride his

middle initial

and then it says acting in his dana

mcbride so he you know he takes his

acting name his name is his right has to

be

you know the other whatever so anyway it

happens um

where are we so yes we make the

seamstress movie uh and yeah it plays a

ton of festivals like all over the

country even some internationally

um and we got a distribution deal after

we had our festival run which is

you know kind of the the you know the

end game of any indie movies you want to

get that distribution deal

um and then you know ideally make some

money but that's pretty hard in the

indie space no matter how you slice it

um but yeah scenesters is out in the

world on itunes for rental and stuff

like that and the first movie

we did and then after that um we

well i went and made a movie with my

writing partner doug mainly called

planet world that i'm very proud of

but we i mean we made that all in for

like six thousand dollars

but but we did play a bunch of festivals

and it's it's a crazy weird like

slapstick kind of comedy it's ridiculous

and we

we didn't find any distribution for it

so we just put it on youtube so if you

want to youtube that you can watch the

whole feature right now

um but we played a bunch of festivals

that was really fun uh and then we did

another indy called holiday road

which was like a bunch of our filmmaker

friends everybody sort of it was an

anthology

um kind of right when the anthology

craze was hitting you know movies or

whatever

uh or feature films and that was really

fun we got into a bunch of festivals

with that went back and played slam

dance with that one

uh and then we got to um

it's a disaster which is probably the

most well-known thing i've been involved

in

uh movie-wise to this point um and that

is a movie starring

david cross and julie styles america

ferreira and rachel boston

and erin hayes and then me and blaise

miller and jeff grace and todd berger

also wrote and directed that one

uh and jeff and i produced that as well

um

and yeah that was uh that was definitely

like a sort of a step up for us you know

it was still an indie movie still

money we raised you know from investors

and people this one was a little bit

more like

you know we started getting into more of

like the actual sort of indie

movie funding space with some producers

who like they fund new movies that's

what they do for living you know so we

dealt with some of those folks on this

one

uh which we didn't really do much on

this insurance and

you know obviously working with you know

some bigger name talent on this one

which you know was amazing

uh i mean david cross is a comedy you

know hero of mine i mean

to this day and got to be friends with

him and you know considering my friend

these days that was a huge life you know

event for me

i've been working with julia styles and

forever and then erin hayes who you know

i was watching all the time in

children's hospital

amazing and rachel boston super cool um

yeah and we made that movie uh and then

we premiered at the la film festival

in 2012 i believe um and then we

started talking to distributors and got

a distribution deal through this company

called oscilloscope based out in new

york

um who've been really good to work with

and then

went to you know it's been on hulu and

netflix and

amazon and itunes and you know we had a

theatrical release with it uh

a small one it was like i don't know

like maybe 50 theaters across the

country but

it was fun you know to tell friends in

different cities like hey you can

actually go to the theater and watch

this one you know whatever um i did get

to see it in the theater

and uh yeah if you remember this or not

but y'all also

kind of spun off that uh live version

that you held yeah

yes i remember when you invited

got to see that i remember walking in

and somebody comes up to me and says uh

yeah

are you signing up for the open mic

night i'm like no i'm here to see like a

movie thing

they're like no it's open mic night i'm

like what has kevin got me in

here you're like all part of the deal

i'm like hey man

heads up would have been nice because

i'm thinking about getting up there and

say something i just came to see a show

man

i just i just i hate i hand you a guitar

and i'm like get up there dude

yeah uh no yeah yeah we uh we spun it

off into a little uh

live sort of interactive theater or

piece uh which was a ton of fun we

we did this uh brewery actually out in

los angeles called the golden road

brewery which i'm sure their beers are

out here too but um

yeah they have this like sort of event

space in the back of the brewery that

we turned into like our our theater

because the whole conceit of the

you know the theater piece was that it

what you just said it was like the

audience is coming to this bar for an

open mic

night and then everything happens and

they're all trapped inside the bar like

there's another world type event going

down outside

and they all have to sort of be in there

together and the actors are like a part

of the audience and they're all you know

if you've ever seen like a tony tina's

wedding or like a

awesome 80s prom kind of thing it's like

that interactive sort of theater stuff

um but it was a ton of fun we had a

blast doing it yeah you came out for we

had some good audiences out for that so

it was really cool

um and yeah and then after that man um

then things sort of moved career-wise

for me like you know a little bit more

intensely into the writing world um

where me and my writing partner we

wrote these three features for

nickelodeon tv features

uh called lost in the west and they were

these western time travel movies um

that we did that were really fun and

that was kind of our our first like real

big like paid writing gig

that we had done um even though we had

been praying together for a long time

and then that parlayed into our first tv

like proper writing job for a tv show on

uh this show called still the king

with billy ray cyrus that was on cmt for

two seasons

uh that was amazing that was such a

blast doing that we shot out in

nashville

i acted in it as well as write writing

on it

it was amazing it was you know my

buddies i'd known for a long time they

created it

um so it was amazing to work with

friends and

we were you know lucky enough to sort of

get a lot of our actor friends to be on

it which was amazing you know as well

um and that was such a such a fun time

such a cool thing

uh and that show ended in 2017 was when

we

finished airing but then since then man

um

just uh been working on the projects

like i've sold a couple tv shows to some

different networks here and there

uh unfortunately nothing that has been

on air yet but it's you know this is

kind of the

you know the working writer's life is

like pitch a project sell a project and

like go through all the steps and you

know and hopefully it makes it to air

you know hopefully it makes it to a

second season whatever um so yeah yeah

right now just in the throes of

a bunch of different projects at all in

kind of those stages of like all right

we sold something now we see like are

they going to give us you know green

light the pilot are they going to

greenlight the first season like all

that kind of stuff so um

so perfect kind of segue into my next

question so

uh talk about your writing process i

mean from

the moment that little idea pops in your

head i mean

do you have like a room you lock

yourself in that you say

i'm gonna you know walk myself in here

and until i've got 10 pages done or or

do you

you know take a walk on the beach and

throw five rocks into the ocean before

you start

what what goes on in your mind before

you start writing those scripts

yeah of going from

idea to putting something on paper yeah

so

i mean you know right now kind of i

think this is probably somewhere for a

lot of people who

write in the hollywood game is you know

you kind of have some projects that

you're like okay this one's for a

paycheck and then you have something

like okay

this one's for me um and and very rarely

did the two intersect unfortunately

unless um so

it kind of depends on you know which of

the projects i'm approaching like if

you're going to

say you know pitch a show idea or a

movie idea to a company

to say like i know that let's say

paramount is looking for

a robot movie where the robot becomes

best friends with the kid

and they save the earth i know that's

kind of like something they're looking

for an e.t kind of robot movie whatever

you say okay what's my take on okay well

it's going to be this kid who lives in

east texas and it's going to be a girl

and she's going to like have big dreams

about being an astronaut but you know

she's in a wheelchair or whatever the

 it is

right whatever the heck it is and

dupe that one out whoever the heck it is

and you say like oh and the robot you

know it's gonna be this part whatever um

you're like that's my pitch so then you

go to paramount and you're like here's

my pitch on the robot with a kid friend

movie

and they're like cool cool we don't like

that or we like that great here's your

money go write that

versus like oh do i really care about

the kid robot movie do i just want to go

write that on my own

um so the difference being if you're

going to write and they call it so it's

called writing on spec meaning like

writing speculation

um if you write something on spec that

means it's like okay i'm going to sit

down because i want to write this movie

because i think it'd be fun to write and

i don't know if anybody's ever going to

give me a dime for it

but i'm just going to do it because i'm

a writer and you know those facts you've

published books so

you know what the process is like in

that sort of realm

versus if you're not ransomware on spec

usually

at least in my experience has been way

more pitch-based of like you're going to

sort of think about the idea think about

where it's going to go

and then you go pitch this idea to the

production company or the network or the

studio or whatever

and then they'll say we like that now go

write us an outline you know

and there's stages to it so if i'm

writing so i'll kind of back this up so

i'm if i'm writing just on spec a

personal idea that i think like hey this

idea whatever it is is going to make for

a great feature film i just want to

write it i'm just going to go for it

um i will always start with an outline

um

and then outline we'll take different

kind of forms of like you know will i

throw a little dialogue in there sure if

i think like you know i don't want to

forget this funny line or don't forget

this like meaningful like piece of

dialogue

i'll throw it in there you know and then

sometimes i will probably end like well

you know why don't i just write this

little scene out you know so i'll have

this sort of outline that's like

okay i know in this part of the movie

you know this like big chunk of action

is going to happen here but i don't

really worry about how it's all going to

shake out i know it's going to i know

there's going to be an elevator crash

and i know this person's going to die

i'll figure out how that happens later

but then after that i'm going to write

this funeral scene that's really

heartfelt and touching

and kind of funny because i know what i

want to say in that scene okay then

after the funeral scene

i know they're going to have like a post

funeral party where somebody's getting

too drunk they're going to fight

i'll figure out what that is later but

then moving on from that blah blah blah

um

so you know i always start like i said

with that sort of outline

you know uh called a treatment or called

a scriptment you know some people call

where you're actually putting a little

dialogue in there

um and then from there you know i just

start writing the pages because you then

have the map and then you're basically

just kind of filling it in with dialogue

um i mean you know to back up even

further as far as like you know

wandering on the beach and deciding what

like you know what idea i'm gonna write

next or whatever

i think for me it's like if it's a

personal project like i said

it's like excitement based it's like man

do i really

because you're devoting the time again

max you know as a writer like you're

sitting down at that computer for hours

in a damn clip

and if you're not excited about it and

you're not passionate about it it gets

really boring real quick and that turns

into it turns into a lot of pages that

you meant to become a whole bigger thing

that are now just something you never

want to finish

um because you didn't really think it

was a great idea you know to go down

that road

so that's for me it's got to be you know

excited about you know how to get to the

end of it

and passionate about it because if

someone's paying you to do it that's a

different story

you can you can easily trade out passion

for money

some of those passion projects though i

mean have you gotten to the point where

you're like

man this isn't working how how much do

you push yourself

to try to get to the end or do you yeah

you know what i've

i lost the passion here i'm just to drag

it over the recycle bin and be done with

it

man i i mean i hear you and i know and

i've you know i know that

sensibility and i have tons of friends

who you know have

you know folders on their desktop

littered with like half

scripts and i get that i i don't do that

i haven't done that i don't want to ever

do that

um even if halfway through a script i'm

feeling a little disenchanted by it or a

little not as excited

i push myself to finish because i just

can't stand to have that like if i'm

gonna start it that's that's what i'm

saying

it's like for me if i'm gonna start it i

i gotta finish it you know um that's

that's not to say i don't have a number

of scripts that suck because of that

so what you're saying is they're all

finished they're all finished

there's been some of those where like

halfway in the middle you're like you

know what i'm just going to pound the

rest of this out and get this done so i

can say it's done and

and yep that's what you did 100

100 yeah plenty of those exist plenty of

those exist on my desktop

so uh actor writer producer if somebody

from hollywood comes in and says kevin

brennan you've got to pick one and you

can never do the rest ever

again which one

it's so it's funny man like well you

also left out uh the music part because

i've been playing music longer and i've

been doing any of this stuff

um but though it's so funny man this

question comes up

like so often um

and uh i mean i don't think just to me i

think for a lot of people who you know

are trying to do a lot of different

things with their

you know creative career um

you know for it's really for me

like kind of based on honestly

where sort of my career is right then so

for right now

you know what is paying my bills is the

is the writing part of my career

you know so if you were to tell me like

hey dude choose one of those things

right now

i would say well it needs to be the

writing thing because my last acting gig

was an unpaid short film that i did

that's not the greatest thing

um so i would say right now like if i'm

gonna be put into a box or whatever i'd

probably you know have to go

the writing route um you know certainly

like you know i'm saying like the music

stuff like

i still actively play music and record

and you know i love it

and i've been doing that since you know

we were kids and that's never made me a

dime

you know and that's but that's something

that i'm never going to stop doing even

though i know

it's not really ever going to be a path

to any sort of you know success

financially at least because i just love

doing it

um but yeah if you were to you know tell

me like hey you know you need to figure

out like

how it's all going to shake out

career-wise from here on out one thing

i would probably say yeah the writing

okay so let's put it this way google

calls you up again and says

hope you enjoyed that camera uh now

since it's been years later we were

thinking about you and we want to stroke

you a check that's going to take care of

you for the rest of your life so we take

the money out

oh yeah now which one do you pick

uh i i think honestly i would probably

still stay in the writing world because

i mean i love acting and i've been doing

that for a long time and you know

but it also is a very i don't know

you know it's i mean the body changes

and people you know like you're

i mean it's it's just it's a tough

career even if you're being you know

if you're taking care of money-wise to

maintain um i mean the body changes like

i'm you know i'm being

you know degraded into not walking or

anything like that

um i just mean like you know it's

when you're when you're writing you know

it's obviously more cerebral it's more

in your head and

you can tell any story you want as an

actor there's a time

when you sort of you age out of roles

you turn into a different looking you

know

you're not going to play those kind of

rules name or whatever so you kind of

get limited

you know as a writer you know you just

your name is on the page and i can write

you know a

movie about you know a horror movie as

much as i could write you know this

movie or whatever

and it doesn't matter you know where i

am in my life you know i could be an

eight-year-old man doing that or

whatever you know i could be

who i am now um so i do enjoy that

freedom of like

writers can literally write whatever

they want you know whereas actors are

like

yeah dude you can do that role and like

uh it's not really right for you to do

that rolling or whatever so

it's a little more limiting i would say

what what do you think about uh the

the old school studios versus now all

the streaming networks you got netflix

you've got

hulu making movies you've got amazon

prime making movie picking up movies but

also making movies

then you got the old school studios i

mean are we gonna shift and see

more of the the netflix studio i think

you know netflix presents this or

whatever it is

or you know and see some of those old

like paramount pictures

are they going to start fading away are

they always going to have that

stranglehold and just kind of change the

way they distribute movies

um you know i mean this has been going

on for for years now and i mean i think

if anything

you know the the revolution has already

occurred and it's still occurring

i mean yeah the streamers you know

netflix amazon hulu you know disney plus

apple plus whatever um they are

obviously they've taken over you know

that's that's that's happened that's

what's going on right now

now is it going to get to a point i mean

because the thing is like paramount

makes a movie that they then you know

sell to netflix you know they can

co-produce on it

and that's been happening for years man

like studios have partnered together

like paramount and dreamworks they'll

make a movie together you know they made

you know like iron man the first one i

think was a paramount and

some other i mean marvel obviously was a

part of it they weren't marvel studios

yet

um but it was like a co-production a lot

of those big budget movies are like

co-productions among studios so you know

i think it's really honestly a little

bit more about like

kind of like what their sort of taste is

and what you kind of brand them with you

know like

like netflix i would say their original

movies as of late

um they've been these sort of

interesting like they'll drop something

on friday now i got watched on a few

months ago like project power did you

see that one no i haven't seen that

it's like it's like jamie foxx and just

gordon levitt um

and and it dropped like and on a friday

night i was like oh this is netflix sort

of actually

drop on a friday with some names i've

seen it this is not a great movie but it

was kind of fun it was interesting it

had like sort of a superhero vibe to it

and i'm like oh that seemed like a

netflix just drop it on a friday night

movie and that's like a genre now

you know um versus like netflix and

chill

genre basically it's what you're exactly

yeah

in the background yeah exactly very very

well put um

versus like you know you think about

like well then what does a sony movie

look like or what does a paramount movie

look like these days

um and i don't really have a good answer

for that i don't know what like a

paramount movie is but i do know that

you know in just my experience like

there are you know what your idea is or

you're thinking about an idea to pitch

um or even if you've written something

you will first call your agent manager

and be like hey i've got this idea or

i've got the script

first thing they will say is oh uh like

your script about

like you know the haunted restaurant

okay cool well sony doesn't want

anything to do with ghosts right now

uh paramount doesn't want any food stuff

so we're not gonna go there oh

dreamworks dreamworks they want to do

some something with a ghost so we'll go

to dreamworks

uh and then like uh and then we'll look

at like you know uh

i think warner brothers oh yeah warner

brothers they want to do like a ghost

type thing so we'll go there

so it's also like what are those studios

looking for which means for their you

know bigwigs

who are crunching the numbers what do

they think is going to make money right

now

you know and it's like why does you know

why does warner brothers think they can

make money off a ghost restaurant

where sony doesn't think they can you

know and it's you know it's

usually based on the fact that like well

sony probably already has a ghost

restaurant idea

happening and they're not going to do

another one well warner brothers doesn't

so if the sony one does well they'll do

their you know it's all that

kind of yeah kind of kind of like the

the guy

outside the industry like me i i kind of

think all the

you know studios are saying we want

sequel ideas we want remakes and we want

sql ideas because we

you know we constantly joke me and my

friends about how it's like every movie

that comes out

is is a sequel of a movie or a remake or

something like

been bombarded with you know quite a bit

of that stuff

so uh well and then also i mean

you know a big big ruling sort of thing

is the

the pre-existing ip the pre-existing

intellectual property

so you know i know some uh i know some

screenwriters who

they wrote their feature you know just

as you would write a screenplay

and it was not getting any like tread

around town

so what they did was they went and they

turned that screenplay into a graphic

novel or a trade paperback whatever you

want to call it

and then they sent the graphic novel

trade paper background and they started

getting all these meetings and all these

pitch meetings

because everybody was like oh it's

already a graphic novel holy it's

already existing ip

wow that means you know we know it can

be a thing so

you know if anything like you know i

mean look at everything we watch right

now

everything we watch is like 90

pre-existing ip and that and that could

just be a book you've never heard of it

could be you know like a

magazine article or you know it could be

a podcast and you're like oh that was a

thing before this

yeah because that makes it anything to

sort of

make the people who sign the checks

understand that this could be a thing

that's what excites them yeah so in

other words what you're saying

they made it a thing before with some

other medium

and made money or it is at least got

some kind of a following behind it

so turn it into a film we've proven that

this back there before made some money

has a following

we put some money behind it some

marketing behind it and find a good film

we ought to make some money on it yeah

and you know and the money part of it

obviously is in there but also man like

you know i mean you you know your book

the libertines like

you got your your motorcycle gang book

and if i were to write a script about

motorcycle gang

and then we take that in the studio and

we take your book and we say we're going

to write something based on this pick

one

they're likely going to pick your book

over my script because it's like oh this

book already exists

we know what it is you know kevin's

script over here i don't know

in the hands of the wrong director it

couldn't get weird or whatever

you know and we see that max has this

book that exists in the world and

even though and i don't know this so you

can quote me from wrong but like i mean

if your movie is not selling or

your book's not selling a billion copies

a day which i hope it is max i really

hope it is

just shy of a billion copies there's not

a billion but even if it's not selling a

billion copies a day

they somehow view that as like superior

to something that's totally untested

you know gotcha well oh

my phone call when my books get optioned

for that movie

you know keep keep selling a billion a

day and you'll be fine

so uh with everything going on with

covid right now i mean you you've got an

age of covet or as you call it the great

sickening

from this youtube video that you got

which is great everybody needs to check

out

the ancient thank you from the ancient

sorry

tales of the ancients tales of the

ancients yeah see see that's why my

books aren't selling a billion copies

because i can't even read my handwriting

right here

so do you think because of all this

going on that

you know writers like yourself and other

writers are sitting there on a bunch of

ideas and they're just waiting for some

green lights to be lit

when things loosen up and it's a little

bit easier

let's say to make a movie yes and no

i mean the the no part is is that

dude like i mean yeah when it all first

started coming down in like february

march

or march april sorry um yeah everything

shut down like all the production shut

down you know whatever people are in the

middle i mean

my girlfriend libby wells the regularly

talented writer she writes on the tv

show dynasty

uh that's on cw um she was literally in

atlanta

um and they were about to because when

you're a tv writer you are

there on set when they're shooting your

episode that you wrote and they shoot in

atlanta so she they get flown out and

she was there during pre-production of

her episode so it's like you know four

days before they

start shooting the episode and she was

out there in atlanta

and doing pre-production and then the

day her episodes were supposed to start

shooting

was the day they locked everything down

in the country

and she literally got on the last la

flight out of

uh atlanta to come back yeah i was like

i was like tell me when i'll put gas in

the tanks i'll come drive out to atlanta

get you you know

it's like that'll be a fun road trip um

but thankfully she got on that flight

and made it home

anyway this is all to say that yes

everything

shut down everything across the world

but

some things started to open up sooner

than others and right now dude like

production's back like i mean dynasty

has been

shooting for months now are are very

good friends we're not matt hershberger

he's a camera guy

and he's been working steadily you know

for months now on different products

different productions you know

um here and there and all you know all

my friends back in l.a like who

steadily work you know who are more like

crew people you know kind of who like go

from job to job to job

and don't have a lot of downtime they're

all working like they're all just

you know i'm on to things so now so yes

so a lot of production is back and

they're all you know from what i

understand they're all being very

safe about it it's like you get tests

every day when you go to work

uh you know they tell you like hey when

you get home from work don't go to the

bar and you know suck down any beers

like just go home you know

and people don't want to get sick so

they're being good about it um

and so that's what i mean now to back to

your question of

you know are people like okay

production's back we agree on

all these ideas what's really kind of

been you know

problematic for i guess people you know

with like trying to pitch ideas

is when stuff shut down back in march

april

all the production companies all the

studios started having this backlog of

stuff that they were supposed to start

shooting over the summer

that they didn't get to do so if you're

in a position right now like me if

you're like going to pitch a brand new

idea to somewhere

the answer is cool idea we dig it but

we already bought eight properties back

in the spring we bought these eight

scripts these eight show ideas

we're committed to doing those and we

had to pump the brakes on those so now

we're doing those right now so we don't

really we're not buying anything right

now

it's kind of where it's at um yeah so

yeah so all my friends who like you know

we're more in like the sort of pitching

you know world of like trying to sell

shows everybody's like yeah i'm getting

meetings i'm pitching people seem

interested but literally no one's

buying anything right now because they

have this backlog of stuff they need to

do first

you know right so that makes sense so

got a uh listener submitted

okay this is the only thing i didn't

prep you on

okay i'm ready the strangest thing that

you've had to do to get a job

i was taking a huge gulp of water before

that one um

let's see do i get to know what what

user submitted this or is it someone i

don't know

no it's it's nobody you know nobody got

you

um the strangest thing i've had to do to

get a job let me see

um

i'm trying to think i don't know if

there's been strange things i've had to

do to get a job there's been strange

things i've had to do

during a job should i do that well that

was this that was the second part of the

question

so uh if anything strange that you had

to do to get a job what's some of the

strangest things you've had to do during

the job

sure that that's way fun didn't expect

that you know you were gonna have to do

for that gig yeah um well there was

there was a movie

that i did uh in 2009

eight nine maybe ten uh called super

zeros which was a ton of fun it's a lot

of the guys i worked with in nashville

on the billiards hour show

um my bunnies travis nicholson and patsy

poncerolli

uh they wrote and directed it and uh and

i was like kind of a

bad guy and like a biff tannen kind of

back to the future type bad guy

and uh and there was a little subplot in

the movie about the main characters

their job was

emptying porta-potties was their day job

and

so at the end of the movie there's this

whole big like porta-potties exploding

thing that happens or whatever

you need to watch maybe get the logic of

it but anyway um there i was

in my like final shot of that of that

movie uh

sitting on this porta potty that i mean

it was not real

feces thank god but it was you know like

muddy water whatever and

the joke was i'm sitting on this toilet

and it's just blasting up and like you

know

flooding the whole toilet thing that i'm

sitting in

um and that went on like a number of

tanks

just sitting on a toilet and having just

like you know

what is not actual feces water but fake

feces water just blasting up the toilet

into my face and into my

my body and everything so that was that

was interesting

yeah so so after that in in multiple

takes did they come up to you and say we

got it on the first take we just wanted

to do this to you and see how many times

we could do it to you

you know what that actually did happen

on the last take the director he's my

buddy but he yeah he was screwing with

me on like the last take he was like

all right one more time man and this

time i think we're gonna spray it right

in your face i was like what

you're like no i'm just kidding um

and then uh more recently uh which is

actually

you know just the holiday pass that uh

we did this movie called

the turkey bowl which we shot up in

norman oklahoma which i was just acting

in but

um it's like a heist like not high

school it's well after high school

it's about these two rival high schools

who much later on in lives like our age

they come back to play sort of their

rival game as you know guys our age or

whatever

um and the whole town has a big rivalry

and that was a super fun movie to do

but we were

playing in this so the final whole part

of the movie is the big game

right the two teams against each other

and there's a subplot in there

but there's a moment in the movie where

the the bad guys i was on the bad guys

team

we burned down the good guys field house

and we burned all their pads and all

their helmets and their gear and

everything

so in the attempt to make them forfeit

okay

because they don't have any pads so they

come to you know

they come and they're like no we're

gonna play without pads and you guys

have to too

and we stupidly agree to play this

padless game that's full tackle

so the final like week of shooting the

whole

five days of the final week of shooting

it is a bunch of dudes our age

who are playing no pad tackle football

[Music]

for four four cameras so you know we can

you know it's hollywood so you're kind

of taking a lot of stuff

but it also a lot of it was very real

and we were like we had only two

stuntmen on set

for two full teams of men playing

football um

so that was interesting because we a lot

of people got injured

we're playing taco football which was

kind of crazy but it was fun i i

brian hansen is the main guy in that

movie and i

totally by accident like i'm tackling

him at one point i gashed his face open

with my hand yeah they're like all right

medic over here stitch up ryan's face

let's get back to shoot oh that's

fantastic

well cap is so great catching up with

you appreciate you doing here brother

tell uh tell everybody how they can find

you on social media your youtube

all that good stuff yeah man appreciate

that um yeah so

uh instagram i'm uh kevin m brennan um

and then i also my band

instagram is the irish goodbye um and

then

on youtube you can look at that sketch

comedy group i was talking about earlier

the vacation years um we just dropped or

i just dropped

uh a brand new it's gonna be for the

next three weeks series that max was

talking about called tales of the

ancients

which is kind of a fun little web series

that's sort of like talking about

the covet ravaged future and telling

children what they missed out on

uh so that's gonna be coming out on that

uh youtube channel for the next three

weeks

um and then yeah facebook i'm just kevin

brennan find me there whatever

um and is that all the social media

there is

i'm sure there's more you know there's

so much social media now i can't even

keep up with it but we do have

a vacationeers channel on our channel as

well for oh cool

sweet well so uh people can find yeah so

well kevin thanks for joining us on this

episode of the wolf and the shepherd and

uh

we'll catch you next time man take care

stay safe

all right brother thank you you too